Chrysler Engineering reputation 4

[thruthefence]

Years ago part of Chrysler's marketing, was it's engineering expertise. Is it deserved, either in the 1950's, or today? I had an uncle, would only buy THEIR products, and gushed about "Superior Engineering" at every family gathering. Can someone point to specific advances that would give them this cache'. Or, is there more "sizzle" then "steak" ? Mass produced the "hemi" engine, pretty good automatic transmission; anymore?? Seems like they had an electronic fuel injection system, predating Bosch, in the early '50's?

 

[chammyman]

quite right money talks.

Its sad when you have to look to the 60's for a companies 'best' times

 

[turbomotor]

thruthefence,

I know nothing of Chrysler engineering resources in place today. But, as a young engineer for an automotive supplier, I had the opportunity to work with guys like Pete Hagenbuch, Kim Lyon, Dick Winkles, Pete Gladysz, and others. These Chrysler engine guys were an extremely bright and curious bunch. No aspect of engine performance engineering escaped their scrutiny.

I especially enjoyed talking with Kim Lyon (engine controls engineer) about the time he spent in Italy developing engine controls for the Lambo F1 effort, and with Pete Hagenbuch about the Richard Petty era engine development.

http://www.allpar.com/corporate/bios/hagenbuch-interview.html

 

[metman]

Can't say this car is indicative of better engineering or not but I think it's very cool.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I guess that is why there are so many choices because there are so many varied beholders.

If I'm not mistaken, they also were the first to isolate engine vibration

Ewh, You are not mistaken but maybe that is what you meant by your followup post about reading the wiki article more closely.

Nobody has really mentioned it yet, but the automotive engineers in MI, USA tend to hop around "The Big Three". This probably has good long term effects for both the OEMs and the employees, but it does make a single OEM's "reputation" a bit questionable and transient.

Several have mentioned similar things about mobility of engineering expertise within the automitive community since that post. I think it is a fantasy to think that any particular auto manufacturer has superior design engineering, manufacturing engineering, production employees, management, bean counters,etc. They all have made contributions to the industry, all have made lemons, etc, etc. It is a living thing, dynamic so that you must take each vehicle year and model and compare it's attributes. For example; IRstuff said "... but 60 yrs ago..." Yes there was a lot of innovation going at that time by that particular auto mfgr. Reo came out with the first electric starter in 1913. "Ford had a better idea" was that when they came out with symmetrical key? Sorry -- that is not very engineering intensive but you get the idea and we could go on and on.
Not only does America have a love affair with the automobile. Some people have a love affair with an automobile company and that's OK! At least it shows some loyalty. Like how can any one be loyal to a baseball team called the LA Dodgers. Did it not used to be the Brooklyn Dodgers. This goes WAY over my head but then I am WAY off track already..........

 

[JayMaechtlen]

Well, I've had pretty fair luck with most of the cars I've owned. But I certainly know folks who haven't.
I've spoken to a transmission shop owner and a Dodge minivan owner, and neither of them had anything good to say about the transmission in those. Is there a way to get actual stats of repair interval for those versus other automatics ?

Jay Maechtlen

http://home.covad.net/~jmaechtlen/

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Picked up a Nissan Cube for the SO a few months back. It has a continuously variable transmission (CVT) that takes some getting used to... weird to see the car speeding up and the tach sitting in one place. Since it is a fairly new technology in a passenger car, there has been a lot of discussion among the owners about the reliability, to the point that i think sales were starting to drop. Nissan, with no request or complaint from me, sent a letter telling all Cube owners that they believed so strongly in the quality of the technology they were increasing the drivetrain warranty to 10 years.

That speaks volumes to me...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[evelrod]

I remember when a Korean mfgr came out with a 100,000 mile or ten year powertrain warranty....That was just about the only thing in those cars that lasted that long...

Rod ;-)

 

[GregLocock]

Hyundai? When they introduced the 10 year warranty is also (coincidentally?) when their sales took off, and they have also improved substantially in the JD Powers and CU surveys.

It was a high risk gamble though, I agree. I wonder if they just took out a lot of insurance, or whether they were so confident in their quality roadmap (Bzzt jargon alert) that they could do that?

Cheers

Greg Locock

I rarely exceed 1.79 x 10^12 furlongs per fortnight

 

[MacGyverS2000]

As I mentioned, that is what I theorized for the Cube...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[tripleZ]

Interesting point on the automotive warranty issue Greg. I was told by a tier 1 customer of mine that GM is now going to mandate that warranty costs of sub-components are going to be shouldered by the sub-component supplier (those who agree to that deal I guess). Any truth of this being a widespread phenom or just related to GM?

 

[metman]

tripleZ,
It would seem logical that the Automobile OEM would revert to the sub-component supplier to recoup losses from warranty issues which is likely what they have always done. In this mandate, is GM having the car owner take recourse directly to the sub-component supplier?

 

[GregLocock]

All depends on the contracts. In the past most suppliers were fairly reluctant to get involved in warranty costs, for obvious reasons. They are difficult to enforce - if the supplier is also the technical resource then if he says it ain't broke then without spending a lot of money then you have to take his word for it. They do this on a case by case basis, so it is just too expensive and time consuming to chase up.





Cheers

Greg Locock

I rarely exceed 1.79 x 10^12 furlongs per fortnight

 

[RossABQ]

I always find the Chrysler minivan transmission debacle ironic. From everything I heard at the time, the UltraDrives were largely japanese-made in initial production, with production later shifted to the US. Just as with the awful Mitsu 2.6L "jet" 4-bangers and Mitsu 3.0 V6's Chrysler used, that sounded like typewriters and/or smoked like mosquito foggers, Chrysler takes the hit for their failures and pissed-off consumers run over to the import side... who were responsible to some degree.

I would find it amusing, too, except that I got burned on an UltraDrive minivan to the tune of $1800, 5k miles over the warranty.

 

[evelrod]

Ross, you could have beat that 5k over warranty deal with Chrysler. I have had AWA (after warranty adjustment) on my '95 Chrysler LHS when all the core plugs started leaking well after the warranty on the power train had expired.
On my '01 Lincoln I've had two AWA's, one for rear wheel bearings at 65k and one for the AC switch that controls the cabin distribution (about the same time).
It is not always easy to make something like this work, it may require legal help, but it can often be an aid to the consumer.

Rod

 

[RossABQ]

Well, Rod, I tried explaining that to my ex after she wrote the check... it did not help matters, believe me.

 

[patprimmer]

I had a similar discussion with Toyota after the third speed sensor failed in 3.5 years (ie 6 months out of warranty) in my SOs 2004 Rav4 POS.

Discussion with wife in front of service manager giving us a A$700 quote to fix it again.

Me to SM
As this was replaced about a year ago it should have original 3 year warranty from time of repair.

SM
Replacement parts only have 12 months or to expiry of original warranty whichever is the later.

Me to SO
Why did you buy a Toyota.

SO
Because I thought they are 100% reliable and never have recurring problems.

SM
Toyota's do not have recuring problems.

Me to SM
Well 3 times in 3.5 years sounds like a recuring problem to me.

SM
Well maybe this particular car has a recuring problem.

Me to SM
It certainly is an expensive recurring problem. Can you explain we can fix it permanantly.

SM
Not really, I will talk to the shop foreman about the details.

Me to SO as the SM was about to leave
Do you think you will ever buy another Toyota.

SM after return from workshop
Does your car have a sun roof (Moon roof to some).

Me
Yes

SM
They are locally fitted by subcontractors and the drain directs water to the speed sensor.

Me
So you just blow them off with compressed air and try to charge us $700 every time.

SM
We would never do something like that.

Me
Well why not just put a cover over it or deflect the drain to the side or rear.

SM
Turned and walked away without answer.

SO to me
I never saw you be so rude to someone before.

Me
Well you never saw me dealing with a lying crook who tried to treat me like an idiot before.

Inspection by me actually revealed, that being EW mounted normally front wheel drive layout, the speed sensor was actually on top of the gearbox, fairly high up in front of the firewall and nowhere near any drains.

AS made in Japan, rainwater would normally enter via the radiator grill and radiator and wet the speed sensor area.

A dealer fitted after market cruise control unit had been fitted when new before delivery. The sub contractor who fitted it spliced a wire to the speed control unit in such a way that water shorted it out. It appeared the speed control unit had never been removed.

Bottom line, Toyota almost got a real bad reputation because of poor quality work and dishonesty by the dealer.

A well placed dab of silicone rubber fixed the problem permanently at a cost so low it cannot be calculated.

AS I do not think many people would have the knowledge or the front to take my approach to this, I wonder how many other owners of Rav4s with cruise control think Toyotas have this recurring problem and therefore their engineers were at fault on this issue.

It seems evident that stylist over ruled engineers on the Rav4 design in other areas and there are design problems as a consequence, but that is another story.




Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[thruthefence]

I think the word "sub contractor" lends a bit of 'cache' to the folks who actually did your work on the cruise control.

I bet the "sub contractor was a local audio/trim/window tinting shop, with some pimply faced High school drop out-handling the "installation".

There's a few dealers around here that take exactly that route.

 

[RossABQ]

Don't get me started on aftermarket alarm and stereo installers......I suspect the same crowd did the RAV4 cruise control.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Spare a thought for OEM Harley engineers. How many OE Harley exhausts ever wear out? Imagine the kudos from designing one.

- Steve

 

[RossABQ]

That could be because most owners toss them within the first 10 miles?

 

[SomptingGuy]

Explaining the joke ... bad form.

- Steve