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Church Roof Collapse 1

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azcats

Structural
Oct 17, 1999
688
This happened in my neighborhood. Came upon it just after it occurred. Fire alarm was activated and could hear sprinklers pouring water.

Appears the building was unoccupied. I'd seen no recent construction there.

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kykopestprevention.com said:
Your attic: Termites like attics here in Phoenix because they’re a source of accessible, exposed wood in a relatively undisturbed place. Look for mud tubes branching out between beams: this is how some termites travel from beam to beam.

I'm not familiar with termite damage and was surprised to find this (Link). The torn top plate resting on the backing looks odd though it may be a combination of insulation, wood, and sunlight.
 
Arizona doesn't have a blowing sand issue. They have lots of vegetation in their desert. Monsoons are another story. Arizona is one of the regions that gets all of its annual rain within a few hours.
 
Neither lighting or roof tiles should cause a competently designed and constructed structure to fail.
 
hokie have you seen these legacy lighting rigs?

They can weigh over a ton. quite often just hung on two suspension points.

Personally I would design just for them at the starting point then the rest of the roof round them.

If they were added in post design and build they are an accident waiting to happen as they may get a tick for 3 lanterns but then get progressively added too as pastors change and the history of them is lost.

I am wondering what the trigger was for the buckling. Something added recently or an environment change
 
No, I have no idea what you are talking about, and don't see it from the pictures.
 
th_1_r0oflj.jpg


The legacy lanterns can be 30-40kg each. And if they have motor movement try doubling it.

They are made out of tubing.


I doubt this one will be a ton but it could be 200-300kg hung off a couple of cables.

Look at the first picture in the middle hanging off the side that hasn't failed
 
Should be no problem at all for, as I said, "a competently designed and constructed structure". Lighting contributing to this is a red herring.
 
We are back to builders not following to the letter.

Maybe they missed out the kickers or what ever they are called that brace and reduce the clear span lengths?
 
Maybe. I wouldn't venture a guess just based on the photos.
 
As i roll this over in my mind, the structural defect could be as basic as not having solid blocking between the trusses where they sit on the west wall ... and two of them rolled over.

I am venturing an educated guess based on photos 'cause we have to start somewhere. It helps to be informed rather than just waiting on expert reports, which could be less than adequate.
 
Maybe an insurance report. I can't even find a news report on this.
 
This is the lighting structure inside.

Nothing else springs to mind... The screen looks like a drop down screen.

Unless they put up a new LED screen?

Screenshot_2023-10-31_121156_vxmdef.png


Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
 
Unlikely on the public report.

I'm still not totally understanding the framing here. There's a change in slope in the ceiling, but not the roof. So these aren't fully parallel chord trusses. (ETA I'm not sure this line is correct - think eyes playing tricks)

And the broken pieces that are now poking up at the outside bearing wall look more like joists than the remnants of a top chord extension. That hardly seems like enough depth to make truss work for that span.

Could there be another beam at that slope change? Doesn't seem likely.

I really don't know.

Maybe I'll see if I can get some more pics.
 
azcats - looks like there's a MASSIVE steel ridge beam up there.
 
not totally understanding the framing here

The 45 deg carve out on the building footprint feeds the illusion of a change in roof slope with interior photos.

Foot_Print_twuf3f.jpg


Eave detail from dated Google Street View

Eave_Detail_p3vq2t.jpg
 
Our church also has a tile roof:

HC-047_nl78qe.jpg

December 2009 (Sony A100, 10-24mm)

But look at the roof beams:

JV-097_kwgpki.jpg

October 2014 (Sony NEX-3N, 16-50mm)

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
Sym P. le said:
The 45 deg carve out on the building footprint feeds the illusion of a change in roof slope with interior photos.

Yes - this is what was fooling me.

phamENG - I thought I was seeing a ceiling slope change about halfway down.
 
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