Client upset About Shearwall design 6

[bigmig]

I get a call about once a year from a client who just happens to notice the day before construction, that my plans call for wood framed shearwalls. The shearwalls are normal...hold downs, shear pins, sheathing etc.
I get the same "I have never done that and my stuff is still standing", or "is this new in the code?" or "I'll build those the day hell freezes over". I design them only after completely reviewing the lateral requirements of the code, prescriptive layouts etc. so in short, they are needed. If I don't need them, I don't put them on my plans.

This topic is such a sore subject for contractors in my area that I have literally spoken to contractors who refuse to work with engineers who spec what the contractor sees as complex hardware and shearwall systems (i.e. straps, dragstruts etc.)This bothers me greatly, because it means that someone in my local is apparently not designing shear walls for the homes these guys build.

I'm trying to develop relationships with these contractors in the hope of securing future work, but am having a hard time convincing them that I need shearwalls for their house to perform. The drama they convey makes me think this is the last job we will be working together on. Just for the record, I would rather not work with someone who risks my liability, so please understand I'm not trying to sacrifice integrity to make these guys happy.

Has anyone come across a "lateral design" primer for contractors or some equivalent "intro to shearwall construction? that I can use to help convey the idea that this stuff is not made up, but a real world construction solution?

 

[msquared48]

It's hard to teach those clients anything when they know everything.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[SLTA]

Might be worth a friendly drop-in at the local permitting office just to make sure they know what to look for - like offer to do a lunch and learn or similar. But only if it won't make them mad.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Around when I left there in 2010, folks in New Orleans had started recycling building materials by disassembling old buildings stick by stick instead of just knocking them down and destroying all the components. As a business, it only works if you can get away with really low wages, e.g. for illegal immigrants or volunteers. But there are hazards to doing that.

There was a little newspaper coverage of a house that had all the siding and sheathing removed before anyone got around to stripping the roof. It made the paper because the crew was surprised when the roof just sort of spiraled down toward the foundation as each of the four shear walls stopped being a shear wall and turned into an array of parallellograms.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[kylesito]

I do not have a primer but have run into this issue also. Most recently, I had a contractor insist to me that the 20,000 sq ft, 5 story unit was nothing more than a "house" and therefore he didn't agree with my overly designed building! Like Mike said, it's hard to teach someone who already knows everything.

We stuck to our guns, put what we needed to on the drawings, and told the guy he could build it that way or not. The choice, and therefor the responsibility, was on him.



PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[rowingengineer]

Sounds to me like your not confident in your requirements for shear walls and the basic situations that require shear walls and those that don't. This cuold be due to many different reasons, but I would find some good rule of thumb that cause shears walls to come applicable and those that don't. This way you can say, no mate the rule of thumb is 1m of wall to every 1 m of external wall, if this ratio is out, you need bloody shear walls. Builders love rules of thumb, don't always work, but can be effective in getting someone onside.

In my area you are allowed to use no-load bearing walls with some simple nail detailing to he noggings, top and bottom plate and studs such that only 10% extra nails are required to have a nominal shear wall. This means that if you want you can do away with shear walls with all the extra bits if you have more than enough nominal walls. Doesn't happen often but can happen, this is mostly helpful on older buildings when trying to renovate.

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[brandonbw]

We had something like this happen on a project in regards to drainage. The client ended up going through 4+ contractors to quote the job and we kept designing to what the contractor wanted. No matter what I said no one would listen. As that project was about to be finalized for our portion everyone went crazy on us for doing who knows what wrong. Magically the site worked to our plans. And I am sure if they went with our first design or any iteration the entire project would have been at least $100k cheaper to build.

Now we just won't put up with this stuff, even if it makes us more money with redesigning. Go meet the contractor out in the field and do the calcs in front of them, with some code for good measure. Ask them to show you how their concept works and yours doesn't. Be nice about how you approach this, bring some beer, whatever, it will do wonders to the lightbulbs popping up in thin air. NSFW for what else some of these guys would prefer over beer to get the point across. I have been in some meetings recently with old school contractors and they are very stubborn. But no one could definitely tell him otherwise, so he would just go off at those meetings. The older engineers all laughed because he was chewing out an architect who was very green. I am just nice to him and he takes whatever I say as this is how you do it, and back it up. He really hates some of the nonsense that LA City is requiring lately in our field.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

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http://bwstructuralengineer.com

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http://bwcivilengineer.com

 

[1capybara]

my house has shear walls, structural 1 rated sheathing, grade beams, steel columns.....and I'm glad it does. does someone actually want to live in
houses not rated for lateral forces?

 

[bigmig]

1capybara,

The house is a spec home. The contractor is trying to pinch every penny he can. In the end, I went to the site and explained to him and the contractor why I needed the shearwalls. They put them in, but I'm sure they were grumbling while doing it.

 

[sundale]

I love wood as an engineering material but cannot stand working with the guys that construct with it, i.e. residential contractors, because:

- Residential wood butchers always know FAR more about structural engineering than you ever will.

- A contractor with "20 years of residential experience" really has about one (1) year of experience...20 times.

- A guy with a pickup truck and a dog can be a residential contractor. A guy with a pickup truck and TWO dogs is a developer.

 

[xyyy]

Sundale,

I can not agree with you more. I feel frustrated.

 

[racookpe1978]

" A contractor with "20 years of residential experience" really has about one (1) year of experience...20 times."

And that "one year" of experience has never been tested by a earthquake, high wind storm or hurricane rains. Sure, it works. So far.

 

[brandonbw]

I went to a job site this week where I learned if you can speak you are a contractor. They were looking to add in some things to force a failure of the design. The word french drain needs to be removed from the English language.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com