Climate change political solutions. Australia goes down the gurgler. 8

[GregLocock]

Our glorious new ruling party is about to enshrine a 43% reduction in CO2 by 2030. They are also, in a fit of not joined up thinking, intend to increase the population by 4% in the same time frame, by immigration. They'd also like to see more tourists.

I suggest by 2027 the entire target net zero project will have been repeatedly demonstrated to be effectively impossible, and of course meaningless, so it's time to get the beer and popcorn out.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[dik]

...another big problem, but different. Other than a 'red herring' that has little to do with the discussion.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

how much of US CO2 is for manufacturing goods for export ? By the same token, how much is China's ?

Who should take the "hit" for this CO2 ? the producer or the consumer ?

Who should take the hit for coal exports ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

No idea, but another red herring... I suspect the US imports a lot more from China than China imports from the US. It may mean that locally produced items have a smaller footprint, which is a good thing. Also it means that things have to 'last longer' to reduce the carbon footprint... no more 'disposable' dishwashers...


That's easy... the country that mined the coal should be responsible for the carbon footprint caused by the mining and the country that burns it, should be responsible for their use of it.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

the problem with per capita quantities is that you lose track of total quantities. Australia could stop CO2 emissions, and no one (other than the Ozzies) would notice ... it wouldn't resolve the problem. Maybe an x- y- plot with per capita on one axis and total on the other ? Then the 3rd parameter is total_FF_power/total_power. etc ...

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

The countries that are producing the largest per capita CO[sub]2[/sub] footprint should address that... and as a result, the total CO[sub]2[/sub] footprint is diminished. It doesn't mean that India or China can sit back until the rest of the world catches up.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

So the problem is that China has too many people. This per capital stuff makes no sense.

 

[TugboatEng]

So what if the coal isn't burned? It doesn't make sense to punish the source.

 

[GregLocock]

Greta's publicity stunt involved 4 transatlantic flights to move crew around as needed, from memory. So, um.

Tug's point is quite serious. Who should bear the CO2 'cost' for a manufactured item? Similarly with airlines, should the Maldives be debited for the CO2 from the fuel used to fly tourists in?



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[dik]

And, India, too? more people, even will small amounts of CO2, the number gets bigger... The individual carbon footprint has to diminish. Why should an American be allowed to produce 7 times the amount of carbon as an Indian (and screw up the earth 7 times as bad)?

Thanks Greg... I was unaware of her publicity crew? Those actions are wrong... but it pales in comparison to the thousands that travelled to 'attend'. None of this should have happened.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

"Even Greta used a sailboat for her one attendance" ... what an elaborate stunt ! why sail on one of the fastest, most expensive racing yachts ? with, like greg says, a professional crew, probably flown in (and back ?) why ? for the media spotlight.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

The source only claims the energy used to extract it from the mines... the destination claims ownership of the carbon produced when they burn it... unless it off gasses, then they take ownership of that... I would suggest that the destination is responsible for the carbon footprint in transportation. It's pretty simple.


So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

[quote="Even Greta used a sailboat for her one attendance" ... what an elaborate stunt ! why sail on one of the fastest, most expensive racing yachts ? with, like greg says, a professional crew, probably flown in (and back ?) why ? for the media spotlight.][/quote]

If that's what happened, it's wrong... plain and simple.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

what if they don't burn it ? maybe convert it into diamonds ?? can they claim carbon credits ??

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

Less any carbon produced in the conversion... sure, why not

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

Yes, India as well. But start with China, as they are otherwise being a nuisance, while India isn’t.

 

[SnTMan]

Heh

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[GregLocock]

I found the plan. This is the national grid authority's roadmap to net zero for the Australian electricity grid. 100 pages of unfeasibility. I'll pull the numbers and cost it out.

https://aemo.com.au/-/media/files/m...nts/2022-integrated-system-plan-isp.pdf?la=en

Also our state government (Vic) is about to consider 100% renewable by 2030. Should be fun.






Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[rb1957]

everyone is just one-upping the others !

And still Australia exports coal ...

more than a bit hypercritical ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

Hokie, even using 'ugly' coal, China's carbon footprint is still only half the US on a per capita basis... Fossil fuels are the real problem whether coal, petroleum or natural gas...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

If you say so. I still haven't seen a good definition of 'carbon footprint', so I can't argue.