Culture at Structural Firms 7

[Lion06]

I'm getting ready to begin a pretty intensive job search (I'm still employed, just looking for something that gives me more time at home and compensates me more appropriately). One of my biggest concerns about leaving is the potential for a culture shock at a new firm. By culture shock, I mean corporate culture. Right now I have a lot of autonomy - I (for the most part) decide what I want to work on and when as long as the work gets done. I don't have anyone breathing down my neck asking about getting stuff done. My colleagues and boss value my opinions and will always (maybe usually) acknowledge if I have a valid point when we disagree. My boss is a pretty happy, easy-going guy (though his expectations are very high) and I recognize that personal life and circumstances can easily sway the tide as to whether someone is a good or bad (read overbearing) boss.

We also have an extensive library, top notch computer systems, lots of software, continuing education, and we get to work on some pretty prestigious projects with world class architects. The down side is I don't feel properly compensated (this goes up exponentially when I think about all the "free" hours I've given working 55-60 hours/week). We haven't had raises in two years (coming up on three years very soon) and we just recently got back a 7% pay cut. What this means is that I have almost 5 years of experience (will have my PE shortly) and I'm making in the low-mid 50's. This seens ridiculous, in my opinion.

What I'd like to hear about from the structural guys out there is what is the culture at your firm like. Do you have bosses popping in every day (or multiple times a day) to see what you're doing or if you're "finished yet"? How many hours do you typically work in a week? Does your company provide good computers and software? Do you make a fair salary? Are you required to stamp anything or is that only for the principals? Also, was the impression you got of your firm during the interview process indicative of the reality now that you're working there?

I'm really just trying to get a sense of what other structural firms out there are like.

 

[Lion06]

Just FYI-
I did a quick salary search last night. I looked at salary.com, payscale.com, and engineersalary.com. The three median salaries that came out of these three sites for my location are (in no specific order) 60k, 66k, and 81.7k. The 66k was the closest to what I expected. Do these numbers sound about right to others? These are all based on a minimum of 4 years of experience and are reported for the 50th percentile.

 

[abusementpark]

I would get hold of the ASCE salary data for your region. For some reason, I think that data holds credence over the general salary websites. A few months ago, you would get the results for free if you participated in their salary survey.

I did compare the ASCE results with one of those sites and the result were similar, but be sure you are making an apples to apples comparison, especially since you are on the edge of that critical distinction of being licensed.

 

[Ron]

SEIT...your 66k number looks about right, but I agree with abusementpark...get the ASCE salary survey. If you don't have access, try your local ASCE chapter.

 

[HereTwoLearn]

StructuralEIT, my perspective and thoughts as a fellow "young engineer":

I spent too much time at work (meeting important deadlines, etc.) at my first job (consulting firm). I moved away after three years due to family reasons. Some bits of insight that may help you:

1) It was clear to me when I had the "I'm leaving" meeting that my boss was prepared to give me a significant raise, had I told him I was going to a competitor. (Not to sound arrogant: Like you, I was a valuable employee that did good work.) Note that I left during a somewhat busy time, so there wasn't the "fear" that exists now.

2) I learned "5 years" of knowledge in my "3 years". Big confidence booster.

3) At my current job, engineers generally work closer to 40 hours. However, I still tend to work some overtime (for free). I now realize that its just my nature to work "too much", to make sure things are done "right", and "on time". I suspect you may find the same is true for yourself.

4) The culture at both of my jobs: Bosses are laid back and let you "do your own thing". They don't have a choice, because they're too damn busy just like you are.

5) I read a great book called "Endurance". This book chronicles a disastrous expedition to the south pole where the explorers were stranded on floating ice packs for two months and occasionally chased by sea lions. It wasn't the point of the book, but the thing that jumped out at me: During this time, the men were genuinely happy at many points, even when on the ice. They had learned to live with "where they were stuck", and the "glass half full" personalities pervaded. Maybe you aren't stuck on an ice pack at this point, but chances are that whatever move you make, you won't regret it.

6) You're underpaid. I'm familiar with consulting pay in the south versus the rust belt, etc., and you should be getting at least around 60k.

7) Put yourself in your boss / owner's shoes. It's probably safe to assume he has a large company overhead and relatively little backlog. Chances are he's justifiably scared of the economy.

Don't take this in a condescending way: You need to learn to have the hard conversation. Be frank with your boss and explain your concerns and thoughts. Being able to have the hard conversation will further your career a lot more than any engineering knowledge. Ideally you have a hard conversation with your boss without giving an ultimatum. Something good, maybe a raise, will come of it. Good luck.

 

[GregLocock]

According to a recent survey a 50th %ile grad with 4 years experience would be on about 70k, and by 11 years would be on 100k, so if nothing else you'd expect 4k per year rise on average. These figures are for Australian manufacturing/automotive engineers, but the base figure is close enough that the comparison may hold. The distribution of pay at any particular level of 'experience' is rather wide, for instance in the company I work for there is a factor of two between the lowest and highest paid engineers with more than 20 years experience. Insert tired saw here.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[mtu1972]

From Feb. 2010 ASCE Salary Survey for what it is worth. As stated, it is highly regional and we are in the "rust belt".

From my experience these are representative for staff engineers; firm owners and office managers probably make more than the salaries reported in Levels VII and VIII which I did not include here. I only have limited knowledge about what one former boss paid himself.


North Central Region

Engineer Level I - entry level (GS-5)
# of Respondents Average 25th % Median 75th %

Base Pay 126 52,553 46,200 52,000 58,000
Bonus 49 4,860 1,200 2,500 5,000

Engineer Level II - Engineering intern (GS-7)

Base Pay 184 54,608 49,660 54,098 58,893
Bonus 96 3,846 1,000 2,145 5,000

Engineer Level III - Staff Engineer (GS-9)
Base Pay 284 57,479 50,000 56,180 63,283
Bonus 166 5,148 1,000 3,000 6,000

Engineer Level IV - Associate Engineer (GS-11)
Base Pay 738 67,172 58,760 65,000 74,880
Bonus 424 6,462 1,625 3,500 8,019

Engineer Level V - Senior or Project Engineer (GS-12)
Base Pay 1003 83,501 72,000 82,000 93,000
Bonus 592 8,767 2,500 5,500 11,254

Engineer Level VI - Principal Eng. or Eng. Manager (GS-13)Base Pay 871 98,517 83,000 96,500 110,000
Bonus 545 12,848 3,200 8,000 16,000

Definitions
Base Pay = Annual salaries reported for primary industry. Excludes overtime pay and bonus/commissions.
Bonus/commission = Annual amount reported.
NMS = No Meaningful Sample; sample size is less than 10


gjc

 

[abusementpark]

mtu1972,

The salary difference between your region and mine in the South is fairly significant. It looks like roughly 10% less. Do you have the ability to post data for any of the other regions? I'd be curious to see how it varies across the board.

If StructuralEIT is in the low-mid 50s, then currently he isn't drastically off the average/median salary 56-57. Of course, we know he should be above average. It isn't easy to gage where he should fall in the Engineer IV category once he is licensed, since I believe that classification covers 4-8 years of experience, and may be more indicative of someone with 6 years (average of the range) experience. Bottom line: he is underpaid now, and will be significantly underpaid if he receives no raise once he becomes officially licensed.

 

[mtu1972]

abusementpark -

I was only able to get my area after participating in the survey last spring. ASCE probably doesn't want us to know that the grass is greener elsewhere.

gjc

 

[bridgebuster]

ASCE doesn't part with anything for free.