Did not receive the raise i wanted, now what? 75

[MechEng7777]

Hi All, i've been working as an MEP engineer in NYC for 2 years now. Its my first position related to my career after graduating with a BS. I very recently received my end of the year review and received nothing but praise, my boss thinks i am progressing very well and becoming very independent. But to my surprise, after all that i was presented with just a 4% raise and a 4% bonus. I am fine with the bonus i received but i feel the raise is kind of offensive. I will be going into my 3rd year now and my first raise was more than this. My question is, what should i do? Should i sit my boss down and express why i feel i deserve a better raise and how i can do better for next year? Apply to other jobs and get another offer first? Or should i just continue working hard here and see what happens next year? Its a small private company (~80 heads) so promotions are rare. Also, i have my FE and expect to take my PE in 2 more years.

 

[GerryBertier]

I always find these types of threads interesting because I can definitely relate.

First Job 1x
1 year raise 1.038
2 year raise 1.096
Second Job 1.115
1 year raise 1.149
2 year raise 1.201

So I'm making 20% more than my first day out of college.

Secondly, I get 2 weeks vacation and will not get 3 weeks until I have 7+ years experience.

I have 4.5 years experience and have passed SE-Vertical and will be taking the SE-Lateral again in April.

While, if you look at the raises I've received above, you'd think I'd be pretty happy and content. I'm not. I'm constantly having this internal battle. I get to a company, work hard, produce CDs efficiently, learn and get great reviews from my superiors. I really focus on the efficiency and budgeted hours of my projects. Since year 2, I've been the sole point of contact and structural designer (engineer) on all of my buildings. I do the same job as a unlicensed structural engineer of any amounts of experience. I'm more efficient than any of my coworkers, lower hours spent, less construction issues and design buildings which are to code (reviewed and checked by an licensed SE).

I never feel like I'm being appreciated. I never feel like score is being kept. We all ultimately work for compensation, and that's how we keep score. Both employers always go (went) back to my experience in the industry, not production. This kills me inside. I consider myself competitive and 95% of structural engineering is repetitive and not specialized. To stand out, I produce great CDs, with little oversights, as efficient (structure and time spent) as possible.

These employers barely pay attention to their actual employees production. Budgets are compared with final hours, but not much weight is given to the actual employees.

When I express these feelings, they always fall on deaf ears.

How do I get my mind right, when we (experienced engineers above), all consistently disregard PERFORMANCE, PRODUCTION and EFFICIENCY. "Be happy with 3%, you could be getting 1-2%".

I still have my "fire", but its slowly getting put out. Why come into work, work hard and be productive if the employer never wants to keep score?

/Rant

 

[ScottyUK]

Gerry,

If you're as good as you say you are you should set up on your own when you get licensed. You should do well if your work is to a high standard and you should be able to compete on price if you are able to produce equivalent work in less time.

 

[AELLC]

Gerry ,
Welcome to the consulting business. I went thru all that for years until I went to work for myself.
Management's constant excuse was that they have a lot of overhead (which is true), and the weren't collecting a lot of their billables (also true), but I have very low overhead and I collect 98% of my billables because I am a one-man shop.

Just be happy you have a job because there are a lot of unemployed engineers out there, and be patient.

 

[FreddyNurk]

This largely has nothing to do with 'am I underpaid or unfairly compensated', more to do with fundamentals of what can make one happy, but in Gerry's case, if you're unhappy, take active steps to change the situation rather than getting angry at what you can't change.

This sounds like smug advice (and in some cases it probably is) but its far better for your own mental outlook to focus on what can make a difference. Obviously you've turned your efforts at making your work more efficient, more productive and so on, but now turning your focus to changing your lot (including looking elsewhere, or planning for starting up your own business) is going to be a lot more satisfying.

Clearly the hard part is to work out how to get from where you are now to where you want to go and what you want to do.

 

[Enginerd9]

It's depressing to read so many negative responses. I wouldn't have imagined on a "professional" forum so many people would engage in verbal thrashings and attacks, rather than objective feedback. It's usually the same people too, which is even more bothersome.

BTai88, my first raise was in that same range... 4-5%. My first review went very well, etc. I felt a bit dejected at the time as well, thinking "well if I'm so good, why can't you increase my pay more than slightly over COL / inflation?" Fact is, especially in the downed economy, the 1-2% raise really is the benchmark. If you're getting 4% or more, you're doing really good.

I don't think you have an overinflated sense of self-worth, maybe just an expectation with no frame of reference. To parrot what has been said already: if you're happy with what you do, don't worry about the raise. The money will come. Just focus on staying good at what you do, and finding ways to constantly improve.

Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.

Talent: the ability to use experience.

Which is more valuable?

 

[ManifestDestiny]

Whats the inflation rate in the US? 2-3% or thereabouts?

If your getting 3% raises your wage is effectively stagnant, below that and its declining.

Maybe its time to get greedy? Everyone else seems to be. They've done well from it too.


Sam
Brisbane, Australia

Young Engineer. American old west enthusiast

 

[cvg]

inflation rate is well below 3%, approximately 1.5% for the last year or so. the "Great Recession" is still in effect in the US

 

[ornerynorsk]

The inflation rate depends on what you happen to need at the moment, honestly. We just saw propane increase by 250%, YES 250%, in the last week in the upper Midwest. An anomalous event(I hope!)most likely . When I go to the grocery store and have to pay over $3 for a pound of ground beef that cost only $1.50 4 years ago, milk up 30%, bread up 20%, I find it very hard to swallow (no pun intended) that our inflation rate, even as an averaged whole, is less than 3%. The talking heads can say anything, our voices are drowned by the media, so-called pundits and perpetually faithful sheep.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[1gibson]

Social security cost of living adjustment (COLA) is a good reference.

http://www.ssa.gov/cola/automatic-cola.htm

 

[cvg]

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

 

[ornerynorsk]

Thanks CVG. I don't doubt that there are reams of published data on this. Just count me as one of the skeptics. My personal observations seem to indicate a vividly different picture. Kind of like unemployment data, in which those no longer seeking work or whose unemployment benefits have run out, are no longer included in the number.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[IRstuff]

"those no longer seeking work or whose unemployment benefits have run out, are no longer included in the number."

My recollection is that was done during the recession during the Reagan administration. It changed the numbers by about 1.5 percentage points.

TTFN
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[TomDOT]

There are actually 6 different unemployment rates calculated by BLS. The "top line" publicized one is U-3, and has had numerous changes over the years which reduced the number.

U-6 is probably the most realistic of "true" unemployment, though an argument can be made for U-5. Working a single hour at a part time job in the month takes you out of U-5, but leaves you in U-6 if you are looking for full-time work and cannot get it.

As a comparison in December 2013:

U1: 3.6%
U2: 3.5%
U3: 6.7%
U4: 7.2%
U5: 8.1%
U6: 13.1%

http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp

 

[cvg]

all that trivia on the unemployment rate is interesting, but not sure what it has to do with the inflation rate. of course personal perception may seem that inflation is higher than calculated. as a personal note, I did notice that a couple of months ago, i paid the lowest price for a gallon of gas since about 2009 - under $3 per gallon. That was about a 25% drop in price from the high just a year ago or so. And after re-financing the house, saving about $500 per month on the mortgage. So my cost of living has definitely gone down, not up

 

[carls88]

This is a great thread - and I think shows a variety of opinions from engineers at all different levels within the profession. Some of the posts I agree with and some got me fired up, especially when those of you said to be "happy just to have a job". I don't have a job; I have a CAREER. and the minute I start working for someone who thinks I'm there just because they sign the paychecks needs to know there are plenty of other opportunities out there for a talented engineer.

FYI - I am a structural/civil engineer with 10 years of experience; I started in design and now do more forensic work and consulting.

So here are my two cents:

- Your first four years out of college (before getting you're P.E.) are ALL about experience. Don't chase a paycheck - focus on learning something new on every day.

- Don't confuse "raise" with "promotion" - the only way to climb the salary ladder is to increase your responsibilities. So rather than focus on the raise percentages (and I agree that 4% for the same title/responsibility/etc) is good - you have a much better chance at a 20% "raise" if it comes with a new title and list of responsibilities.

- Get your P.E. and see how you fit into the company. Don't just expect them to throw a bunch of money at you. You need to sit down with management and discuss how your personal goals fit with the company and also let them know ways you can help their company grow (and make more money for them). Make sure they know you want to start managing your own projects, taking on more responsibility and ultimately being a leader for them.

- Don't be afraid to speak up - but don't think of it like "sitting your boss down". Both you and he need to be on the same page about what your goals are and what the goals of the company are. You'll find out very quickly if you are in the right place.

- NEVER leave a job just because of money - but also don't be afraid to look at what's out there. Make sure you work on your resume at least once a year and try to determine what your market value is. However, in many cases market value doesn't always reflect what you are worth to a certain company. It may be more and it may be less.

 

[bigmig]

zdas04's response is the best engtip post I have read in the last 4 years. Still laughing.

 

[FeX32]

It's amazing how much interest the topic of compensation generates. Lots of interesting posts here.


"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." L. da Vinci
- Gian

 

[IRstuff]

For engineers, who are generally powerless in society, salary is a way of keeping score.

TTFN
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[FeX32]

I agree in a way IRstuff. However, I wouldn't say we are powerless. We are responsible for every technological breakthrough that comes societies way.
I see this all the time being in the research sector (automotive).

Also, from what I know about you I would say you are likely responsible for many innovations as well.




"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." L. da Vinci
- Gian