Earthquake 2

[dik]

At least 139 dead and 800 injured in Turkey and Syria after enormous earthquake causes devastation

https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/02/...after-enormous-earthquake-causes-devastation/

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

If I were an insurance company, I'd be looking at voiding any insurance claims for these buildings.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

Reminds me of an experience several years ago in Turkey. Purely anecdotal, but perhaps applicable. In my wanders, I bought a hat in a shop, then a belt in another shop. Both shopkeepers were friendly and obviously intelligent young men. In our conversations, both disclosed they were trained in civil engineering, but could not find a job working in that field.

 

[hokie66]

dik,

Insurance? What's that?

 

[phamENG]

As dysfunctional as our system here in the States feels at times, things like this are a good reminder of how good we have it. Most contractors don't like the structural engineer, but the system enforces our standards at least to a level that I don't have to sell hats and belts for a living.

It's a shame that it takes a disaster to open people's eyes to the dangers that are around them, and the consequences of ignoring them. Hopefully some other country or city will learn from this and not have to live (and die) through another lesson...

 

[1503-44]

Iinsha Allah, si Dios quiere, or some other variation of as God wills is the norm. Insurance isn't a big part of daily life. In fact it's not unheard of to be considered as a lack of faith.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[JohnRBaker]

Both shopkeepers were friendly and obviously intelligent young men. In our conversations, both disclosed they were trained in civil engineering, but could not find a job working in that field.

When I was working for EDS back in 1994, I spent nearly a week in Moscow visiting existing and potential customers. Since we were part of the GM family of companies, we shared office space with them. And when I arrived at the airport and when I had to get back for my flight home, GM provided a car and driver. On my way back to the airport I got to talking to the driver, who was a very proud Muscovite, and he showed me several historical sites during the drive. Anyway, the conversation got around to how he got a job driving for GM (his English was very good and he spoke like he was well educated). When I asked what he did before he got this job, he said he had worked as an engineer at a 'nuclear facility'.

After I got home, I was talking which one of my colleagues working it that office and I asked him about the driver. He told me that after the Soviet Union collapsed, foreign companies doing business in Russia were asked if they could hire certain individuals who had lost their jobs but who had certain skills which other groups/countries might be willing to pay money for. They would prefer that that they stay in Russia, and that they were earning enough to support their families so that they didn't have to get involved with these 'other' potential 'employers'. Now in the driver's case, it wasn't that he couldn't find employment in his field, just that the government preferred that he had a good-paying job doing anything but what he had been trained for.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[epoxybot]

Iomcube - The American Petroleum Institute also provides guidance on storage tanks on seimic locations.

 

[spsalso]

This earthquake was the same magnitude as the 1906 San Francisco quake. About 800 died in that quake.

All this with blatant disregard for earthquake standards, of which there were none.



spsalso

 

[Tomfh]

Seems to me Turkey is a little quick to arrest people.

Yeah it’s a standard scapegoating exercise like you see in backwards counties. Round up a bunch of people, and declare them the culprits.

 

[cranky108]

At least that is better than here, we never seem to find the cause and no one is blamed, or arrested, and new laws are passed, and everything costs more. Or maybe the news media is just that inept to not report anything important.

 

[1503-44]

While magnitudes may have been equal, earthquakes can still vary widely in scale and response. I think this is quite a greater affected area. The SF quake originated offshore, this one directly below. 10km 6mi down is very close. Population of SF in 1906 was 400,000. At 5am SF was asleep in their single story wooden framed houses, probably not many living in 4-8+ story CMU/concrete buildings. In fact I think magnitude might be the only similarity.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[dik]

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JohnRBaker]

Apparently the plague of poorly constructed buildings did not effect all of Turkey:

The city that didn't collapse: How Erzin became a haven from Turkey's earthquake

Residents and officials say Erzin suffered no deaths and saw no buildings collapse, and they credit a long-standing policy not to allow construction that violated the country’s codes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...uilding-collapse-construction-codes-rcna70733

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

The engineering association building was standing, with minimal damage, among the rubble... so, good buildings are not out of the question; there just has to be the wherewithal...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Reverse_Bias]

It's amazing survivors are survivors over a week later.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-earthquake-rescue-efforts-pass-200-hour-mark

Also the Israeli Defense Force team that was at Surfside last year was forced to leave Turkey over security threats.

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live...12-23-intl/h_4c1435552ec2e844f6cf59a7b4258cdc

 

[FacEngrPE]

The point made above about the makup of the rock the earthquake propagates through being as important as the initial quake strength was one of the findings following the North Anna earthquake. The physics of ground motion are the same everywhere, subject to local geology.

Our response well to the lessons of the CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA, EARTHQUAKE OF 1886 for nearly 100 years was a matter of fits and starts. Hopefully our house is in better order now.

https://www.usgs.gov/news/featured-story/10-year-anniversary-uss-most-widely-felt-earthquake[/URL]]Although not the strongest earthquake to have occurred in the eastern U.S., let alone the western U.S., the Virginia earthquake was likely felt by more people than any earthquake in North America’s history. This is due to the large distances at which people felt ground shaking and because of the density of the population in the eastern U.S.
...
“Subsequent research identified that the underlying sediment is what led to amplified shaking,” Pratt said. “We were familiar with that phenomena on the West Coast of the U.S. and internationally, but the Mineral earthquake showed the significance of this effect in the eastern U.S. The areas on sediment received significantly stronger shaking than nearby locations on firmer rock.”
...
The Mineral earthquake demonstrated how much farther ground shaking can extend in the eastern U.S. than in the western U.S. The eastern U.S. has older rocks that are harder and often denser, and faults on those older rocks have had more time to heal, allowing seismic waves to cross them more efficiently when an earthquake occurs.

Impact of local geological condition is also presented in STUDIES RELATED TO CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA, EARTHQUAKE OF 1886 available at the USGS publication library .

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, this is one reason, despite the fact that we have so many quakes in California (in the last 24 hours, there have been 48 quakes in the state that were magnitude 1.0 or greater), that most people never feel much of anything. There are so many faults in the ground here on the west coast that when a quake does occur, the radius of where the shake is felt is not as great as many would expect. So unless it's a significant quake, most people within 50 miles probably won't ever feel a thing.

Here's a map showing the known faults here in SoCal:

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[1503-44]

Most earthquakes in Turkey occur along the North Anatolian fault and end where my BTC pipeline crosses on the Erzincan to Erzurum route. They have had a very steady westwardly progression for a long time. This turned things around considerably.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[spsalso]

"While magnitudes may have been equal, earthquakes can still vary widely in scale and response. I think this is quite a greater affected area. The SF quake originated offshore, this one directly below. 10km 6mi down is very close."

How far offshore was it?


"Population of SF in 1906 was 400,000. At 5am SF was asleep in their single story wooden framed houses, probably not many living in 4-8+ story CMU/concrete buildings. In fact I think magnitude might be the only similarity."

From this we may see that it is safer to live in "single story wooden framed houses" than "4/8+ story CMJ/concrete buildings".

Lucky for the residents of San Francisco, there were very few of the latter.


spsalso

 

[1503-44]

The area affected is the size of England for another. Only the largest was 7.8. There were many others.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."