Continue to Site

Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet

Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals

Register Log in
  • Congratulations GregLocock on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!

Educated Opinions on Climate change - a denouement or a hoax? 25

Status
Not open for further replies.
Part of the story of the temperature record is that of the disappearing temperature stations.

They haven't actually gone, they've just been excluded from the data base.

Russia recently complained that only about 25% of its stations were in the UEA data (you know who I mean).
The station data that is missing seems to be largely from higher latitudes and higher altitudes. What is left appears to be missing lots of data also.
In California there are only 3 or 4 stations still included and all are low altitude and near the beach.

A useful animation of the temperature stations from 1958 to 1999 is found here:
Facinating stuff .... I won't spoil the ending for you, go take a look for yourselves.
The 110 page report on temperature is here:
Which is damning reading


JMW
 
Want to know what the big deal is with surface station data? Check out They have been investigating the surface stations.

What you'll find here

* Site surveys of USHCN, GHCN, CWO, and other weather station networks
* Photographic views and sketches of instrumental sitings
* Historical notes on each station when available
* Survey notes about nearby objects, surfaces, and sensor placement
* Supplemental notes and photographs when applicable
Click to expand...
 
"Why would expect cold weather proformance problems with LNG or Compressed natural gas? It's not like someone is going to add water or ethonol to it."

Cranky, the problem is more typically with the expansion cooling of the gas causing freezing of moisture in the air, e.g. icing in the venturi of a carburetor. I think fuel injection (d/s of a throttle body) of gases tends to have fewer issues, and ported injection fewer yet (i.e. give as little time and space for ice crystals to plate out on the intake manifold as possible). There are systems engineered to use some regenerative heating from the cooling system to avoid icing, but those only work once the engine has warmed up.

The other questions will, I expect, get the thorough answer from Greg, but the fast answer is "very little" - getting a gas regulator/injector system working is the big leap for conversion, and other fuel gasses then become minor tweaks.
 
Sadly I don't know. LPG and hydrogen are both burned in spark ignition engines. There is NO similarity between a hydrogen fuel tank and anything else, you are talking about a miniature cryogenic facility.

CNG tends to be used in diesel engines, I know not why.

Cheers

Greg Locock

I rarely exceed 1.79 x 10^12 furlongs per fortnight
 
During the war civilian vehicles in the UK were fitted with gas bags so they could burn gas. These were simply inflatable bags, so the gas was not compressed.

On the continent they used wood gas and some cars had gas generators fitted.
I thought the UK might have used coal gas but don't have a reference so maybe the UK also used wood gas.



JMW
 
jmw, interesting. If you notice the gas makeup this mixture could be mixed from natural gas, and air as an altertinitive motor fuel.

Fill you car up at home from the narural gas tap. The problem is how would they tax you.
 
they would find a way. they could force you to install a separate meter just for car service. ofc you could bypass that but how many people would be willing to tamper with their NG supply. i sure wouldn't and would hire it out just for the piece of mind that i wouldn't blow my own house up.
 
Gas bottles - fork lift trucks often use them.
Question: how special are fork lift truck engines?


JMW
 
Interesting you said fork lift trucks, because I believe they have replacable bottles. And if some shop guy can replace them, then maybe a simular scheme can be used for cars.
Or you can trade them in at Home Depo.

However with the small size bottle, I don't think you can go far. Maybe as far as an electric car.

And why can someone compress wood gas and bottle it? Although I would think the bottle would need to be quite large (like maybe a trailer size).
 
a lot of cabs in toronto (and elsewhee i expect) use propane; not sure why cabs, or why propane (maybe 'cause it's still subsidised). you can clearly see a modified gas tank, possibly fuel lines as well, possibly ECC too ... wonder what it does to their emissions (catalytic convertor) ??
 
"Question: how special are fork lift truck engines?"

Not very. Ours have a simple gas regulator feeding what looks like a plain old carbuertor.

"wonder what it does to their emissions (catalytic convertor) "

Very little, propane is a very clean fuel. Natural gas can have a fair bit of sulfur, but I think it's also fairly easy to scrub it clean. You'd want fuel injection for better control on a 3-way catalyst. But, then, I helped design and build machines for indoor running that used a 3-way cat, a regulator, and a valve to pulse engine intake vacuum to the reference port on the regulator to adjust fuel mixture. Worked very well, emissions were within the CARB standards (the first ones for small engines) 3 years before the standards came into effect. This was on a little Briggs & Stratton 4-cycle motor.

Funny thing was, the "indoor running" requirement led the boss to demand a catalytic converter (to reduce CO emissions and make it "safe"). But there is no way to eliminate CO2 emissions, and run long enough in enclosed spaces (office buildings) that have little outdoor air exchange, and you can make people have all kinds of funny symptoms. I made no friends pointing that out, as I arrived late on the project, after a lot of money and time had been spent.
 
No-one likes a "johnny-come-lately smart-a$$" ...
and being right only makes it worse !
 
There is no reason why a propane engine could not meet emissions, although HC from the tank end of things looks a bit tricky.

The LPG OEM cars we sell easily meet Euro IV and will need no more work then the gasoline engines to get them to Euro V.




Cheers

Greg Locock

I rarely exceed 1.79 x 10^12 furlongs per fortnight
 
The latest cover-up to get exposed...Data for a 1990's paper that was used in AR4 that covered China and the UHI effect has missing data.

You can read it at any of the three places below:



 
An Ontario TV station known as TVO has just run a about 4 hours of discussion on Climate Change. There was a very good discussion on how credible is the science. Here is the link to the first of the four. . There is also a more recent hour on Climate Modeling at
HAZOP at
 
You like how our leader spent earth day? Buring nearly 9,000 gallons of jet fuel.
 
yeah, but "someone" arranged for a volcano to ground flights for days, so we're still on the + side ...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

ACtrafficengr
  • Locked
  • Question
A parent's question re: ChemE & CompSci 9
2
Replies
20
Views
697
JohnRBaker
JohnRBaker
EngineerRam
  • Locked
  • Question
Decoupling of Buyer's and Seller's Agents Fees - Real Estate - Implications on Engineering Industry
Replies
11
Views
748
IRstuff
IRstuff
271828
  • Locked
  • Question
Article on AI implementation in work flows
Replies
8
Views
535
IRstuff
IRstuff
GregLocock
  • Locked
  • News
Engineers Australia pussyfooting around 50% unemployment in immigrant engineers 3
Replies
10
Views
1K
GregLocock
GregLocock
geotechguy1
  • Locked
  • Question
Changes to the iron ring ceremony 4
2
Replies
31
Views
896
Sparweb
Sparweb

Part and Inventory Search

Sponsor

Back
Top Bottom