Encouraging women to enroll in engineering 28

[cbiber]

Another spin-off from the "Boot camp" thread in this forum --

It's pretty clear that by and large, most engineering fields have a low percentage of females. In my experience, the percentage gets lower as the people get older. In fact, many of my female engineering school colleagues aren't engineers anymore.

Some specific topics to discuss:
-- why aren't girls interested in enrolling in engineering?
-- why do they drop out of engineering programs (do they do so at a disproportionate rate?)
-- how can girls be encouraged to pursue engineering?

In my area, there's a "Saturday Academy" with specific classes to address some of this; there's also an organization called AWSEM for middle school girls (I'll have to post the links later). Other ideas?

Cathy Biber

Biber Thermal Design

http://www.biberthermal.com

 

[quark]

My sincere question to all. why women(specifically!) should be encouraged to join engineering? Is it for the sake of engineering or for the sake of women or on humanitarian grounds? I couldn't get the point.

 

[josephv]

Hello quark,

Currently, our educational system and our profession are designed in such a way that they discourage many talented and intelligent women from joining engineering.

It is time that we call a spade a spade; this is clearly a form of discrimination.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

[EngineerDave]

I know at least one company that generally favors women engineers. While I worked there, they hired maybe 90% women to 10% men. This was in my mind due to a quota issue.

That being said, most of the women they hired were quality engineers.

 

[biglinda]

Female ME here!

Well I agree the ME department had a horrible ratio when I was in college (graduated 2002). But I also got a minor in materials engineering and was shocked when I sat down in a room predominantly female. But Materials had a reputation at my school of being easy and having the least amount of math. So that would go along with the whole math scaring away females theory.

I became an engineer because I was told I was smart and good at math so that would be a good choice. I was also great at english but I chose engineering couldn't think of anything besides teaching that I could do with english. I stuck with my major because all the other majors were for 'dumb people' (it may sound crude but it was my opinion at the time). And now I'm sticking with my job because of the money ;p.

My two other female ME friends took different paths. Both chose ME because they like math. One works making beer and using none of her engineering skills (more of a management type of job). She loves it and the money. Another is a secretary. She's just outta school and can't find a job. But she likes being a secretary because she makes money (though not a lot) and it's not stressful. She doesnt' handle stress well.

I think girls not liking math is definitely a factor but I can't fathom why a girl wouldn't like math as it's always been a breeze for me. Another factor is the whole 'girls are raised differently than boys' idea. I saw a Discovery channel type special where they watched how parents treated male and female children differently. They saw that they were more likely to help the girls with things (such as put together a toy) while boys were left more to themselves to figure it out. I think this could lead to a lot of girls dropping out of engineering because they're used to having their hand held and they consequently give up easily.

Also, when I was a kid I remember complaining to my parents about how boring girl toys were and how I wanted boy toys. Transformers and race cars morphed and did things but girl toys were just boring dolls that didn't have any complicated moving parts. That could also be a factor though I think that'll change because there are so many cooler toys for both sexes nowadays. Perhaps this'll help boost the female engineering population in a couple years.

So I guess I'm mainly blaming society and norms. But I feel like these things are breaking down, especially since the expansion of technology and the internet. I don't think they'll be such a big gap in future engineering graduates.

 

[leanne]

Transformers? We played with Lincoln Logs & Shrinky Dinks & Erector Sets & what was that other building set called where you had wood pieces that fit into other wood pieces & you could build stuff (sticks & cogs & such)?

Barbie doll & GI Joe wars - our explosives were fireworks that are no longer available because kids used to blow off body parts accidentally on stupid.

my all-time favorite childhood toy was a Tonka Jeep with Air Force markings....I still have it....

 

[mgage]

I think that the other building set that you're referring to is Tinker Toys. I didn't have Transformers either, but my friends did.

 

[FrenchCAD]

Do you think all engineers grew up playing Lego/Meccano/Any other building set?

I did myself, and I still own a good amount of Lego bricks and I rarely refuse to built some stuffs with them when little sister ask for it

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer

 

[brad]

LEGOS!

I was so excited when my son (now 2) got his Duplos set. I'm working hard to keep him from putting stuff in his mouth, as I want him to graduate ASAP to Legos so I can "teach" him.

Of course, this is in no way connected to the fact that my younger brother sold MY Legos at a garage sale.

And leanne, you're dating yourself, especially with the "Lincoln Logs" reference (don't worry, I played with them too; I'm just barely too old for Transformers).

 

[TheTick]

from the pages of True Tales of Women in Engineering, a story about men's listening skills.....

I was working for a company that makes lawn care equipment. There was a newly-hired fresh-from-college woman engineer, Kris, who asked for my help with a design problem, a mechanism for adjusting the height of a roller.

She had a pretty good concept, and she just wanted my help fleshing it out. When we were finished, she asked if I could sit in while she presented the design to her boss.

When her boss started reviewing, I was totally shocked by what happened. He proceeded to cross out everything with a red pencil and draw his own version of how he thought the mechanism should be built. By the time the boss was done, he had come completely full circle and drawn exactly what we had initially presented.

Poor Kris was stunned. I was, too.

I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.

 

[Maui]

Why does anyone choose a particular field of study? There has to be something about it that appeals to them, and that draws them in. I was a good student in high school, and found that math and science were interesting topics. I couldn't afford to attend an undergraduate university that offered an engineering program, so I studied the next best thing - math and physics. With the help of a scholarship I attended graduate school and finally had the opportunity to get into engineering. So one of the possible reasons that more women don't enter engineering programs is that they simply can't afford it. It's a long road to travel when you have to foot the bill for your own education.

The women who are able to enter engineering programs pursue it for a specific reason. They are motivated, and willing to do a lot of hard work to earn their respective degrees. What I don't understand is why anyone sees a problem with the number of women currently entering the profession. Are women discouraged from becoming engineers because of the image that it portrays? Is there a stigma associated with being a female engineer? I don't think so, but someone here may be able to enlighten me if that is the case. I believe that the factors mentioned in the previous threads show that men are more inclined to study engineering simply because it appeals to them more than it does to women. And there is nothing wrong with this.


Maui

 

[Haf]

Maui,

I don't agree with your first paragraph. Money is a factor that should affect both men and women equally.

I agree with your second paragraph, especially the sentence:

"I believe that the factors mentioned in the previous threads show that men are more inclined to study engineering simply because it appeals to them more than it does to women."

The question is, why does engineering appeal to women less than men? Is it "natural" or is it instilled by "society"? I guess you could argue that the nature of men and women is instilled by society to some degree, or maybe even to a large degree. The truth is, I don't know, and nobody else does either. The only way to really find out would be to do unethical experiments on men and women that have been isolated from society since birth.

Also, I suppose one could argue that even the pure "nature" of men and women (here I'm talking about the nature at birth unaffected by experiences in society) is determined by societies and norms of the past, which were passed on through genes.

You could go crazy thinking about this stuff!

 

[josephv]

Hello Haf,

"A few have written that engineering suffers from an image problem. I don’t necessarily disagree with this, but I fail to see why this discourages women in specific from engineering."

An engineering program that has little emphasis on communication skills, (i.e. is designed for nerds) will only attract nerds to our profession.

Right now our profession attracts poor communicators, people with poor social skills, and people with little or no interest in leadership (i.e. nerds).

Yet what are profession needs is excellent communicators, and people with social skills and leadership qualities.

Gone are the days when an engineer would sit at his cubicle make a few calculations and only talk to two people per day. Today's engineers must talk to customers, promote their products, make presentations, write reports, interact with their marketing team, reduce costs, be aware of social issues, understand the whole process and look at the big picture.

Many of today’s problems require technological solutions (e.g. pollution, energy crisis, cost reductions). We need well rounded engineers with diverse skills (e.g. communication and leadership skills).

Once our profession and educational system catch up with the present and shed the nerd image, we will attract more well rounded people to our profession, and by default more women will go into engineering.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

[Maui]

Josephv, as long as Dilbert continues to be printed in the daily newspaper, we will never shake that image .


Maui

 

[rhodie]

MacGyver is the only cool engineer I have ever heard of.

Most of the rest resemble an amalgamation of something between Dilbert, a crusty SeaBee, and characters from StarTrek.

 

[leanne]

rhodie, I think you are cool!

 

[FrenchCAD]

me likes this smily..sad the colors aren't in the good order though

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer

 

[brad]

Cyril

Brad

 

[EnglishMuffin]

Leanne, I never would have expected to find a line from one of the closing stanzas of Gray's "elegy" printed on Engineering Tips, and in RED no less ! Perhaps if he were writing today, Gray would have written "perhaps some mute inglorious female here may rest".

 

[miner00]

I would say that the best way to encourage women to become engineers would be to stop setting them up for failure.

I went to a fairly exclusive engineering school with about a 25% female population. I married a female engineer, have several female engineer friends and work with several famale engineers whom I have much respect for.

One of the problems is that to meet a quota, engineering schools have begun to lower their entrance standards. I (as a white male) needed a minimum score on entrance exams to get into the school. I thought that this was reasonable because the minimum score was not extraordinarily difficult and I was getting into a very exlusive school. I did score higher than that and I proceeded to blow through in 4 years with relatively no problems. During those 4 years I watched several of my friends, some male and some female, struggle, become miserable and flunk out. I was shocked one day after I had graduated to find that several of them had scored significantly below my minimum requirement.

The perception that there are not enough women in engineering made the school admit just about any girl who had an interest in math or science, regardless of their academic ability. Engineering is a hard degree and I watched several people smarter than I am flunk out...you have to wonder why you would bring people in who are not cut out for it.

I have no doubt that there are high school girls out there who could be valedictorian at any school in the country. Emphasis should be put on finding these girls and getting them excited rather than setting up an average high school student for failure.

 

[samv]

Having read through this long thread, I'd like to also share my experiences with you... as its a subject I often reflect on.

I am female, and have fairly recently obtained a bachelor in mechanical engineering. I am canadian. I am a mother of two boys.

My engineering school had about 10% female, with also the smallest percentages in mechanical engineering.

I do agree that women and men are different - partly because of society and partly because we just are. I think we will discover just how different we fundamentally are as time passes. Also as time passes - there will be more female engineers and there will be more male nurses (I do agree with the post that it needs to go both ways).

I think there are some things that can be done to help speed up the process -

Like changing the toy industry so that everything related to the home is not pink. I'm dying to buy my sons some house related toys - for example the little fisher price playhouse to complete our fisher price little people collection - but its sooo pink!! I just can't bring myself to buy it for them!! why is that? why is pink such a taboo color for boys?

I think that in order for women to succeed in male dominated environments men must take on a stronger role in the household. Men must also take parental leave -as I'm proud to say my engineer husband did. This will help in the sense that women who want to have a family will not shy away from male dominated environments. I was the FIRST employee of the first company I worked for to EVER take parental leave - it was a seven year old company, a boys club. I was also laid off when I returned.

While unemployed, I was teaching high school math as a substitute teacher. There was only one male in the department. The group could talk openly about planning pregnancies, about taking maternity leave. They - including the male - were a close knit bunch, something I've never seen in the male engineer dominated environment I usually find myself in. I think that this social aspect is important and is one reason women turn away from engineering.

one last thing - jokes. I'm sure most women that have participated in this forum have been the subject of the occasional "harmless" jokes from male coworkers/study groups. Hahahaha - ok lets get over it, I am a women. (These jokes need to stop)

So that's my take on the issue! fyi - I have finally landed another engineering job, and I like it. However it is yet again, an all male department. As a young engineer I would love to have a female role model to look up to or even just an equal to bond with.

Here's to hoping we will soon see more women in engineering, more men in nursing, and more men taking parental leaves.

samv