EV vehicles - solutions or junk ? 5

[rQuestionEngineering]

Do you think EV vehicles is the solution to pollution considering all cordless products battery failed in two years.

 

[CapriRacer]

I think your premise is wrong. There are lots of batteries that last more than 2 years.

But do I think EV's are the answer? No!

I think the answer is reducing our energy consumption. I favor making energy consumption expensive! That way, people will start to think about how much they are spending on things that consume energy.

For example, if the price of gasoline were to be increased, people would drive less. Do that across the board. The trick is getting the political will to do this. Personally, I don't think the current political climate is even close to making that happen.

 

[BrianPetersen]

There is a lot of online BS about EVs. There are also some good articles to debunk the BS.

Let's start with your specific one: battery longevity. The batteries in an EV aren't the same as in a power tool. The BMS isn't the same. The usage profile isn't the same. The thermal management isn't the same.

EVs have been around long enough to get a fair bit of real world experience. Having said that, don't go by the experience of the Nissan Leaf ... just don't. That was the car that showed the rest of the industry that you need active thermal management, and Nissan never addressed this. Still hasn't.

The normal use of a li-ion battery leads to a gradual reduction in capacity, and the common acceptance criteria for a "failure" is when the usable capacity drops to 70% of original. They're designed for a couple thousand full discharge cycles, and for something with 400 km range, that's several hundred thousand km ... probably not a limiting factor in the life of the vehicle. There's plenty of real world experience to back this up.

I know someone with an early Tesla Model 3, with 270,000 km as of a few months ago, and he reported 12% loss in range at that point. I would consider that to be acceptable.

 

[BrianPetersen]

To address another point (which CapriRacer touched on) ... A simple changeover to EVs without changing anything else, doesn't address other problems such as congestion, heavy consumption of natural resources, unhealthy lifestyles, etc.

 

[GregLocock]

If I lived in a city and spent most of my time there, and I had a parking slot with a charger, an EV would be a great solution. My other car would be used for other things. But in Australia, I can buy a cheap Tesla for 57k, or a Camry for 35k. The difference in insurance between those two eliminates the cost of fuel.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[BrianPetersen]

An EV doesn't have to be a Tesla, though. Expensive insurance is a Tesla problem, not an EV problem. Insurance on my Chevy Bolt is same-ballpark as anything else that size and shape.

 

[SWComposites]

rQE - your statement is WRONG. I have cordless batteries that are ~ 10 years old and are working just fine. And have a 10 year old EV with a battery that is also find.

to everyone else - this person has previously posted many nonsense statements/questions yet never come back to defend or discuss them.

 

[dik]

Like it or not, EVs will likely be the vehicle of the future. Fossil fuels will likely be phased out and when it happens, likely quickly. For EVs to be viable, their source of power will have to be non-fossil. The credits, the government provides, do not reflect this. To address climate change, the amount of vehicle travel will likely have to be reduced. My $.02...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

More realistically, we'll go one of two routes.

One reality is to electrify transportation while expanding fossil fuel grid generation.

A second reality is that we focus on a renewable grid and forget about electric transportation.

We don't have the resources to electrify transportation while simultaneously phasing out fossil fuel grid generation.

 

[dik]

Dunno Tug... I think my comments are likely more in line with what will happen.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[lucky-guesser]

I favor making energy consumption expensive! That way, people will start to think about how much they are spending on things that consume energy.

For example, if the price of gasoline were to be increased, people would drive less.

Ya, fk poor people am I right? Have fun paying double for gas on your way to your job when you're already struggling to make ends meet.

Only a few months ago, fuel was my biggest monthly expenditure by far (aside from rent). Energy costs had a huge impact on my bottom line, and luckily I can afford it. Many others wouldn't be so lucky.

Artificially inflating prices to try and change behavior screws over ordinary people while people with money, presumably you, can handle it. This is why people hate the green movement, its led by people that can afford the extra costs and difficulties who don't give a d*** about what happens to everyone else.

 

[Comcokid]

The energy always comes from somewhere.......
Link

 

[TugboatEng]

The cost of everything revolves around how much energy it takes to produce. Gold is expensive not because there is little of it. Instead it is expensive because you have to dig up a lot of dirt to find it.

The fact that electric cars cost more than ICE cars should be the first clue that they are not so environmentally friendly.

 

[gruntguru]

Tugboat, the energy cost of producing an EV has been researched extensively. Volvo have started publishing the energy cost of their vehicles.

Electric cars cost more than ICE cars because of the high cost of developing and getting-to-market a completely new technology. EV's will reach price party with combustion cars in ~10 years (my prediction).

je suis charlie

 

[gruntguru]

Ya, fk poor people am I right? Have fun paying double for gas on your way to your job when you're already struggling to make ends meet.

REAL "poor people" can't afford a car.

je suis charlie

 

[lucky-guesser]

REAL "poor people" can't afford a car.

All the people at my local factory driving $1000 s*** box cars and live in the bad part of town would be happy to pay double of gas because CapriRacer says so? I don’t care what your definition of “poor” is, terrible/stupid/unethical policies still screw over all the people at the bottom.

If gas costs more, its costs more to get food to the store, so food prices go up too. “Poor” people don’t eat?

Think ONE more step down the line, its not hard to see how stupid this is.

 

[TugboatEng]

Electric cars cost more than ICE cars because of the high cost of developing and getting-to-market a completely new technology.

I disagree with this statement. I feel that the technology was mostly mature when Toyota brought the Prius to the market. Nobody has done anything remarkable with the technology of EV since. Maybe Tesla weaseled enough subsidy from governments so they can install a larger battery pack without increasing price.

 

[CapriRacer]

Look, I'm not saying raising the cost of energy doesn't have its problems. But what are we supposed to do - sit back and complain?

We're engineers. We're supposed to know how to fix problems. This is just a difficult one! With lots of side issues.

So what if the government taxes energy and then with the extra money rebate some of it back to poor people so that they have a net effect of zero?

I don't have answers to all these questions. But I am sure there is a solution. We just have to find it.

 

[LionelHutz]

So what if the government taxes energy and then with the extra money rebate some of it back to poor people so that they have a net effect of zero?

More and more taxes never do have a net effect of zero though. How about we just give the government all the money and they decide what to do with it and who gets what?

 

[lucky-guesser]

We're engineers. We're supposed to know how to fix problems.

EXACTLY. We should design better, cheaper, more efficient technology that in time people will WANT to buy on their own, not to legislate big daddy government into pointing guns at people and forcing them to do what you want.