Expired License 11

[JKW05]

I am the EOR for a project in which we utilized a fiberglass floor system. As a somewhat proprietary system, I required calculations and drawings for this system to be submitted that were signed and sealed by a registered PE. When I received the submission, I discovered that the PE's license expired 8 years ago. We subsequently recieved drawings signed and sealed by another engineer (currently registered) in addition to the previous seal.

I am preparing to file a complaint with our state licensing board, but my boss has indicated that he thought I should I should just let the matter drop, since we did receive drawings sealed by a currently registered PE.

What are your thoughts?

 

[eliebl]

This may be different in your jurisdiction but where I practice one of the codes of ethics would make me as guilty as the perpetrator if I know of the deficiency/oversite/violation and did not report it.

EJL

 

[MacGyverS2000]

How many other projects has the unlicensed engineer worked on since the expiration? How many will he continue to work on until the licensing board is told about him? They need to be informed, else there's no point in having a licensing board at all... what good is it if they have no power to hold engineers accountable for their actions?

Tell, and tell them now, else you might be held responsible sometime in the future.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[swertel]

You posted to this board, thus you made publicly aware your knowledge in this case. You are ethically required, and probably legally now, to report it.

My question is, at the risk of sounding sarcastic (or worse), why did you even think this was a question? Out of the no-brainer ethical delimas we face as engineers, this one is clear cut.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[JKW05]

swertel,

In my mind, this is a no-brainer. I guess my bigger dillema is what my future is in working for a company that can't or won't see the ethical obligations of PE's. Maybe I was looking for the outside chance that someone, somewhere could come up with a reason to support my boss's poistion that I was missing.

 

[H57]

Being in the midwest I can 'understand' your bosses position as most people don't want to rock the boat. When you rock the boat it can have other detrimental effects - like losing a part of your work.

The thing about ethics is that it does require someone to rock the boat at times.

And in the end - doing what is right usually pays as it will allow you maintain clients.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

If his license had lapsed by a few days -- I might just mention it to him and let him get up to speed. Maybe the papeer work crossed in the mail. But EIGHT years -- not acceptable. He MUST be reported.

Recently - I submitted a Florida project with just an old wet seal - not embossed - because my embosser had just broken and I was getting a new one. My luck - the EOR on the other side was on the Flordia Board. What are the ODDS??? He called me to remind me about the FL regs. I explained my predicament and he understood. Followed up w/ embossed copies.

Even if a board says they do not accept anonymous complaints - most actually will do a follow up esp if this is something as simple as looking up a license.

 

[msquared48]

JWK05:

There is really nothing supporting your bosses position, other than the dilemma of possibly the other engineer being his personal, long-time friend. That can be difficult. I am not suggesting that it is an excuse to ignore the impropriety in any sense of the word. Friendship just makes the obvious decision harder to implement.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[monkeydog]

The one part of the story I am not clear on, is did you (JWK05) have to ask for a current seal? Or did the subcontractor update the drawings with a current seal without being called on it?

The impression is the first, but if the second, then there may be an honest story.

 

[JKW05]

monkeydog,

The sub updated the drawings with a current seal on his own. It was at that point I discovered the first license was expired. An asssociate from one of our branch offices called the engineer in question, and he said the engineer in question "acted dumb about it".....

As MiketheEngineer said, if it was just a few days, or even weeks, I could see something got missed accidently. But 8 years is egregious.

Thank you for your responses. The information has been sent to our State Board.

JKW

 

[IRstuff]

What's really pathetic is that for probably less than $500, he could have had a current license. Now, he's broken state law.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[RARWOOD]

I was working with a consultant recently and got talking about expired licenses. He indicated that he had inadvertly allowed one of his registrations to expire. He keep signing work for about a year until he realized it.

The surprising thing about it was that the firm he worked for at that time had all there engineers check their licenses. Three or four other people in the firm also had similair problems.

 

[monkeydog]

It will be interesting to know if the guy blatantly allowed his license to expire, of just grabbed an old seal.
A call to the State Board will clear-up if his license is current.
One is a minor screw-up, the other I agree is flat-out-wrong.

 

[DonPhillips]

Personally, I would report him to the state Board. 8 years is not a mistake. For an expired/missing Certificate of Authorization, I typically let the person know I could not find a current COA for their firm.

Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[JKW05]

Just for clarification from my post yesterday....

"The sub updated the drawings with another engineer's current seal on his own."

As of today, The Board's website still show's his registration expired in 1999.

 

[monkeydog]

Can see now why you are so "spun-up".

 

[SylvestreW]

This is why I love "bosses". Is he a PE? Does he understand the laws and the consequences of your state's act?

Don't let management dictate your profession

-
Aercoustics.com

 

[TXiceman]

Like noted....a few days or even a month could be s simple over-site, but 8 years is blatent and he must be reported.

Ken

Ken
KE5DFR

 

[Senselessticker]

Before fiing a compliant... I would make DARN SURE the website info is accurate. The folks who plug the numbers into a database for the state probably have the education of about a 5th grader and most likely have never heard of "quality procedures" to insure the info he/she enters is accurate.

Just make a phone call to your state licensing board... and if you are able to speak to someone who speaks proper English... then you've had better luck than me at communicating with the state board...

 

[plasgears]

I haven't renewed my licenses for a long time, but that does not stop me from signing communications "...,PE"

As a mech engr, I never had to use my PE stamp or provide documentation of my license except for a condition of employment; just once. I had to provide a copy of my degree, too.