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Flint Municipal water 89

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moon161

moon161

Mechanical
Dec 15, 2007
1,184
So, Flint has been MI lead poisoned and exposed to legionella bacteria because the water supply was switched from Detroit municipal to the Flint River. Since the polluted river is corrosive and iron rich, lead was leached from pipes and solder into the water of thousands of homes, and legionella bateria (legionaire's diseased) apparently thrived on the dissolved iron.

It was done to save money, it stayed that way because people who knew of the crisis sat on the information and obstructed inquiry.



There HAS to be a (ir)responsible engineer in that chain. What are their duties, did they fail to perform? Would whistleblower action have been appropriate?
 
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I would think that criminal negligence causing death would be more appropriate...

This type of event should be taken out of the hands of the local prosecutor and be undertaken by a lawyer specialised in criminal law so there is no conflict of interest.

Dik
 
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JGard1985 said:
I watched the NOVA report, pretty scary when the narrator states that Flint River water was so corrosive it was having an impact on the quality of GM engine parts...but still fit for human consumption
Click to expand...

Water standards at a lot of manufacturing plants are very particular. That the water wasn't useable by the plant does not automatically mean it would be unsafe for potable use- lots of plants all over the country have their own on-site processing to deal with the local water.

The particular plant under discussion doesn't have on site processing, so when the new water source was outside their acceptable range, they had no choice but to change back to the previous source.

None of this is to say that the river water was being properly processed for potable use.. just that saying the plant had to switch is less indicative than you might think.

There are two other plants in Flint- a truck assembly plant and a stamping plant. The engine plant is the only one that switched- the other two stayed on river water.
 
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itsmoked said:
A minor point for someone brushing their teeth or standing in a shower.
Click to expand...

But a major one considering that the guy who died from Legionnaire's disease, and is named in the huffpost link above, lived in a town called Mt. Morris (which is north of Flint) which receives its water from Genessee County, not from the City of Flint system. Mt. Morris was never, at any time, supplied with water from the Flint River.

I said this in a post in this thread many months ago; the link between the outbreak of Legionnaire's Disease and the Flint crisis seems to me to be tenuous. Correlation does not equate to causation as we all know.

I can't say for certain that the Legionnaire's outbreak is NOT related to the Flint River fiasco.. but it appears to me that no one can say with any certainty that it was a direct consequence of the Flint River crisis either.
 
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Charges of Manslaughter in Flint

JohnRBaker Sorry, didn't see your previous post. Already had it.

Richard Feynman's Problem Solving Algorithm
1. Write down the problem.
2. Think very hard.
3. Write down the answer.
 
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jgKRI, but it makes a good story anyway. Despite the facts. The news media does not care about facts, as they just get in the way.

I keep hearing about the unique setting a local park offers, despite the fact the homeless use it as a bathing place. Facts don't matter in the news.
 
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Whether this is totally relevant to the charges, we'll have to wait and see, but there are reports that Michigan state officials went out of their way to try and make sure that any reporting and/or investigation into the rapid increase in the incidents of Legionaries Disease experienced in Flint and the surrounding county (which BTW includes Mt. Morris) that took place during the period of time that the city's water was being taken from the Flint River, that there be NOTHING that would suggest that these two situations were related since this could look bad for the Governor. It was reported that a team from one of the universities conducting a review of the Legionaries outbreak was told by people close to the Governor that if they insisted on looking for a correlation between the outbreak and the switch in the city's water source, from the historical contract with the Detroit water system to the local use of the river water, that Lansing would see to it that the university's funding from the state would be cut.


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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The story being told in local media at this point is that the Legionella outbreak was a direct consequence of the Flint River situation, and that everyone who has been implicated in the water changeover chain of events is thus responsible for the deaths from Legionella infection.

That is the connection that is tenuous to me.

No argument from me at all that if Eden Wells tried to cover up the outbreak to not make the publicity for the water changeover any worse than it already was, that she should pay the price. Even if the outbreak is completely unrelated to the water changeover in Flint (which is likely difficult/impossible to completely prove or disprove at this point) she was definitely in violation of her duty as an officer of the state with regard to interfering with the Legionella investigation.

What. A. Mess.
 
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Regarding: JGard1985 (Structural) 14 Jun 17 12:37

I watched the NOVA report, pretty scary when the narrator states that Flint River water was so corrosive it was having an impact on the quality of GM engine parts...but still fit for human consumption

Somewhat irrelevant statement. Beverages such as Coke and orange juice have a pH of 3 and would also be unsuitable for cleaning GM engine parts, yet these beverages are suitable for human consumption.
 
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The Legionaries Disease outbreak was not necessarily caused by the Flint River situation.

However, the causes of the Legionaries Disease outbreak and the Flint River situation are similiar. Lack of funding at the State and local level, State deregulation, and lack of institutional control at the State and local level. The Flint situation was also enhanced by a political power struggle within Genessee County.

It should not be surprising to find that these causes create additional problems across the State. The Legionaries Disease outbreak is caused by bacteria which don't recognize municipal borders.
 
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from the AP regarding a recent terrorist attack, "Investigators are working to learn more about Ftouhi, whom they describe as a lone-wolf attacker who made his way from Canada to the seemingly random destination of Flint, a struggling Michigan city once known for its sprawling General Motors factories but now better known for lead-tainted water."

Flint can't seem to avoid their infamy...

Dik
 
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How was it that the FBI described the knife attack at the Flint airport, which appears to have only injured a single person, as an act of 'terrorism' while at the same time refusing to call the shootings at the Congressional baseball practice in Virginia a 'terrorist' attack, which injured and put at risk significantly more people? Perhaps if the name of the Virginia shooter had been Mohammad instead of James, the FBI would have reacted differently...

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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The perp shouted, Aluh Ackbar (sp?) before attacking... helps keep FBI and HS guys employed...

Dik
 
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Intent and ideology. That's what defines a terrorism attack versus "standard" violence.

Dan - Owner
URL]
 
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"Intent and ideology". Sounds like the both the Flint knifing and the DC shooting fit the bill.
 
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So whether something is viewed as an act of terrorism is solely based on what's in the mind of the perpetrator, eh?

I suspect that if you were to ask the intended targets about what was going through THEIR minds at the time, they would provide you with a very different set of criteria to use when deciding whether something was terrorism or not.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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