Continue to Site

Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet

Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals

Register Log in
  • Congratulations KootK on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!

Flint Municipal water 89

Status
Not open for further replies.
moon161

moon161

Mechanical
Dec 15, 2007
1,181
So, Flint has been MI lead poisoned and exposed to legionella bacteria because the water supply was switched from Detroit municipal to the Flint River. Since the polluted river is corrosive and iron rich, lead was leached from pipes and solder into the water of thousands of homes, and legionella bateria (legionaire's diseased) apparently thrived on the dissolved iron.

It was done to save money, it stayed that way because people who knew of the crisis sat on the information and obstructed inquiry.



There HAS to be a (ir)responsible engineer in that chain. What are their duties, did they fail to perform? Would whistleblower action have been appropriate?
 
Replies continue below

Recommended for you

Sort by date Sort by votes
So some lunatic decides to start stabbing people at random... but because the victims decide in their own heads it's terrorism, it should be properly labeled "terrorism". Pffft, come on... that means we've had domestic terrorism numerous times per year in every state for as long as this country has been around [neutral]

Dan - Owner
URL]
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The big thing was that they identified Flint with the water problem.

Dik
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
People feel terror from a car accident, but that's not terrorism. I have experience such terror spinning out on black ice and going over the edge of the road, but not a single terrorist to be seen, unless I count myself.

The US State Department has a definition:
(2) the term "terrorism" means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against non-combatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents

Kaczinsky and McVeigh fit that definition, Dahmer and Son of Sam do not. The main objective of a terrorist is not to generate terror in the actual victims, per se, but to instill terror in survivors.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The guy definitely knows how to blow one's own horn. Can't blame him for sniffing out grant money.

On the other hand, the lack of attention by UM, MSU, and Michigan Tech is an embarrassment. Perhaps they don't want to piss off the legislature who funds them?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Speaking of Michigan Tech and water quality, while this is a bit tangential, at least someone is trying to think ahead of a potential problem BEFORE it happens:


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Perhaps, but if the people in charge (from the water treatment operator to the state legislature and governor) were consciously doing their work, this fiasco would never have happened.

Edwards is doing what is known in the aerospace business as tombstone engineering. The problems need to be and should have been identified long before it got to that point.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You could say that about most of the problems identified in this forum. A lot of us work as "tombstone engineers", but we prefer to call ourselves forensic engineers. We don't live in a perfect world.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Please. This guy is being called "heroic" and his efforts have been called "exhausting". All this person did was collect some water samples and then blew his horn.

This water business is settled science that requires little "engineering" skills.

I will be the first one to call him heroic if he is able to (and it will take an exhausting effort) change the mindset of the small government idealogues who are responsible for creating this mess. In the news today, the idealogues are talking about another $1.5 trillion tax cut when the infrastructure needs for water systems alone are over $1 trillion.

 
Upvote 0 Downvote
This is going to be with us for years:

Flint Water Crisis Likely Increased Fetal Deaths, Study Shows

Another hint that the U.S. ought to quit using lead pipes for water.


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
"It's déjà vu all over again." This is something that has been known for over a century.

"Lead pipes for carrying drinking water were well recognized as a cause of lead poisoning by the late 1800s in the United States. By the 1920s, many cities and towns were prohibiting or restricting their use. To combat this trend, the lead industry carried out a prolonged and effective campaign to promote the use of lead pipes. Led by the Lead Industries Association (LIA), representatives were sent to speak with plumbers’ organizations, local water authorities, architects, and federal officials. The LIA also published numerous articles and books that extolled the advantages of lead over other materials and gave practical advice on the installation and repair of lead pipes. The LIA’s activities over several decades therefore contributed to the present-day public health and economic cost of lead water pipes."

This would be a good topic for a business school case study: government regulation or letting the free market take its toll.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
government regulation or letting the free market take its toll.
Click to expand...

the free market or letting government regulation take its toll.

Choose wisely, business school!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
One of the three 'great' lies, "I'm with the government, and, I'm here to help you."
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
What most people refuse to accept is the reality that WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT!!!! To think otherwise is an exercise in self-delusion.

And to that end, try asking the people in Houston, Florida, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands whether they are looking for the "government" to help them.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
John:
"What most people refuse to accept is the reality that WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT!!!! To think otherwise is an exercise in self-delusion."

I hope you are being sarcastic... That may have been the situation at one time... but is a well 'oiled' myth... I have never know governments to act in a manner of looking after the long term interests of the people. In the last few decades, it's gotten a lot worse, and, I see no sign of it improving.

Dik
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I was dead serious. BTW, do you vote? I NEVER miss an election, no matter what's on the ballot, be it a local municipal election, a primary, mid-term, presidential, whatever. People complain about who's in Washington yet they have control over that. Just go VOTE! We don't need term limits as we already have them, they're called elections. Trust me, if every eligible citizen was registered to vote and we had a 90% turnout for EVERY election, we would have a lot less problems then we do now since the real needs of the people would be at the top of list for every Representative and Senator.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I always vote, as does my wife... rain or snow, I push her in her wheelchair to the polling station...

Dik
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

ProSafPlant1
  • Locked
  • Question
Calgary 2 m diameter water feeder main break
Replies
3
Views
114
coloeng
coloeng
JohnRBaker
  • Locked
  • News
Flint Municipal Water - Part 3
2
Replies
28
Views
217
drwebb
drwebb
1503-44
  • Locked
  • Question
Panama Canal Low Water 2
2
Replies
34
Views
170
dik
dik
JohnRBaker
  • Locked
  • News
Flint Municipal Water - Part 2 4
2
Replies
37
Views
195
dik
dik
enginesrus
  • Locked
  • Question
Hurricanes, Sea water, Corrosion and EV's 13
5 6 7
Replies
128
Views
733
FacEngrPE
FacEngrPE

Part and Inventory Search

Sponsor

Back
Top Bottom