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Flint Municipal water 89

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moon161

moon161

Mechanical
Dec 15, 2007
1,184
So, Flint has been MI lead poisoned and exposed to legionella bacteria because the water supply was switched from Detroit municipal to the Flint River. Since the polluted river is corrosive and iron rich, lead was leached from pipes and solder into the water of thousands of homes, and legionella bateria (legionaire's diseased) apparently thrived on the dissolved iron.

It was done to save money, it stayed that way because people who knew of the crisis sat on the information and obstructed inquiry.



There HAS to be a (ir)responsible engineer in that chain. What are their duties, did they fail to perform? Would whistleblower action have been appropriate?
 
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Rather than throw out baseless accusations, why not research the subject and inform yourself? Put yourself in their shoes and consider how pleased you would be if someone was accusing you of misappropriation, misspending or theft with no basis of fact.
 
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The latest update with respect to who is likely to be held responsible for the Flint water crisis and what will be the extent of there punishment:

Michigan Officials Avoid Felony Charges By Pleading No Contest In Flint Water Scandal

Stephen Busch and Michael Prysby, state environmental officials, agreed to testify against others in the Flint crisis.





John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
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Irvine, CA
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The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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Interesting that this was settled on the final days of an outgoing attorney general. If these fellows are going to testify against others, presumably that would be their superiors including Former Governor Rick Snyder.
 
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And for what it's worth, the new Attorney General, as well as the Governor, are now Democrats. Not sure if that will have any effect, but it will be interesting to watch and see.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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I don't see much changing, although I have no doubt the politicos will claim great improvements while making millions disappear. The previous governor and AG are extremely liberal despite the R next to their name as are most of those at the top of the state's party. Its a bit of a bad joke to the grassroots folks that one party simply seems a more radical version of the other.
 
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An interesting update:

Michigan's chief medical officer, Dr. Eden Wells, who had already been charged with obstruction of justice and lying to the police, has now been charged with manslaughter in connection with the Flint water crisis:

Michigan’s medical chief Dr. Eden Wells to stand trial on Flint water charges


This was on December 7th, just a few weeks before she was going to lose her political appointee job anyway as a member of Gov. Rick Snyder’s Cabinet, when his term ends and the new governor, Democrat Gretchen Whitmer takes over.

But that's not the end of this story. Just four days after being charged with manslaughter, Dr. Wells managed to arrange for a new job with the State of Michigan which pays nearly $180,000/year starting in January. Not only is this a state job, it's also a civil service job which comes with with the normal set of 'protections' including not being able to be fired by the incoming governor. Of course, the outgoing Republican Governor, Rick Snyder, claims that he had no idea that this was happening and says he only learned about this when he heard it reported by the media. Note that this totally new position was created just a few weeks ago and until it was disclosed that Dr. Wells was taking this job, no one had heard anything about it.

State rehires doctor accused of Flint water crimes to new protected position


For the residents of Flint, to say nothing of Michigan taxpayers, this is a total insult.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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As our aging utility infrastructure continues to crumble it'll be interesting (and likely depressing) to see what shakes out. Unfortunately building infrastructure isn't sexy in the news so no politician likes to do it.
 
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If anyone was hoping for our newly elected leaders in govt to improve things and react better to crisis, I'd submit that after a week of temps <20F the new governor declared a state of emergency this morning due to yet another day of moderately chilly temps. Its proving quite entertaining for many Michiganders as most of us have yet to break out our winter coats.
 
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There is also a video taken just a year or so before the full turn-on of the plant with a visit by school students and a councilman that talks about the entire operation of the plant, a plant that looks to have not a smudge anywhere.

Note the posting date.

I wonder which plant he visited.

“It was a mess and the reason it was a mess was it was a treatment plant ... that was seldom used ... and sat in mothballs 50 weeks out of the year ...,” said Bowcock, a longtime associate of environmental activist Erin Brockovich. “It was sort of like grandma’s Chevy .. full of spider webs, dust and bad oil.”
 
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3DDave (Aerospace) said:
There is also a video taken just a year or so before the full turn-on of the plant with a visit by school students and a councilman that talks about the entire operation of the plant, a plant that looks to have not a smudge anywhere.
Click to expand...

As previously stated, the problem is not with the facility, rather it is because Flint hired an unqualified person as Supervisor to operate the facility.

In order to be in responsible charge for a water treatment plant of this capacity, the State requires about 20 years of experience to obtain the license. The Supervisor (who has already has pled guilty) had zero years experience operating water treatment plants. Hence, the plant was not operated correctly.



 
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Another news item of interest:

Flint Church In Need Of Clean Drinking Supply Gets Help With Water Box Launch

With Water Box, a portable filtration system created with support from Jaden Smith,
First Trinity Missionary Baptist Church hopes to help ensure residents’ access to safe drinking water.


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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I think the Flint issue is just the tip of the iceberg. Modern testing equipment can detect hundreds, perhaps thousands of contaminants, yet just a handful are required to be reported. I also understand that gov't scientists that are aware of water supply test results that are alarmingly high are not permitted to publically disclose these findings. So we blindly go forward assuming everythiing is fine and dandy, but the actual risks are deliberately kept hidden.

Two items of modern concern include (a) permitting industries to discharge into the public wastewater systems, adding unmeasured pollutants that cannot be treated or removed at the wastewater plants. Often these plants discharge directly upstream of the drinking water intake for the next downstream city ( eg, NJ rivers) and (b) the wastewater from fracking plants, which are supposedly treated for removal of a small list of pollutants, but many other pollutants remain in the discharge , in particular there is no measurement or removal of radioactive pollutants that are often contained in the fracking waste stream.


"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick
 
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Not sure exactly what's going on here or what it means over the long haul:

Flint Water Prosecutors Drop Criminal Charges, With Plans to Keep Investigating


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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John…

I heard a news report about Flint on the radio while driving to work this morning. Apparently, the new attorney general is not satisfied with the quality of the investigation(s) so far. She dropped the charges "without prejudice," which means the charges can be refiled later. Obviously, she didn't think the case was winnable as things stood today, but might be winnable after a better investigation.

Fred

==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill
 
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fel3 (Civil/Environmental) said:
I heard a news report about Flint on the radio while driving to work this morning. Apparently, the new attorney general is not satisfied with the quality of the investigation(s) so far. She dropped the charges "without prejudice," which means the charges can be refiled later. Obviously, she didn't think the case was winnable as things stood today, but might be winnable after a better investigation.
Click to expand...

So far, the indictments were just issued to the lower level workers that were carrying out orders from above and skipped over the decision makers. I suspect the investigation will be redirected at the decision makers like the ex-governor who is directly responsible for causing the problem.
 
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