Flint Municipal water 89

[moon161]

So, Flint has been MI lead poisoned and exposed to legionella bacteria because the water supply was switched from Detroit municipal to the Flint River. Since the polluted river is corrosive and iron rich, lead was leached from pipes and solder into the water of thousands of homes, and legionella bateria (legionaire's diseased) apparently thrived on the dissolved iron.

It was done to save money, it stayed that way because people who knew of the crisis sat on the information and obstructed inquiry.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/14/e...nation-for-months-without-telling-the-public/

http://m.democracynow.org/stories/15874

There HAS to be a (ir)responsible engineer in that chain. What are their duties, did they fail to perform? Would whistleblower action have been appropriate?

 

[bimr]

I believe that it is well established that leaded fuel and blood-lead levels is correlated:

Lead was originally put into fuel to stop the knocking, not to solve a valve problem. If lead had not been used in fuel, the engines would have been designed such that the valve seat recession would never have occurred. Valve seat recession was an unintended consequence of Midgley, not from the environmentalists.

If lead had not been put into fuel, then engine technology and fuel may have taken a different path.

 

[bimr]

USA Today (2/29, Spangler) reports that the Environmental Protection Agency sent letters Monday to the nation’s governors and water regulators, vowing more stringent oversight of federal rules protecting citizens from lead in drinking water. The letters ask states to confirm their water systems meet protocols and procedures set in the “complex” Lead and Copper Rule. They also say state authorities should more carefully review results of lead samples taken at homes and attempt to locate all lead service lines. The article says that given how often the EPA has been criticized for overreach, “it was unclear how governors and state regulators would react.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es-locate-lead-water-lines-required/81125248/

 

[urgross]

I moved from the US to Bavaria in 1986, and took my relatively new car with me. In order to be able to have the car shipped and accepted in Germany, I had to have the catalytic converter removed. I know in 1986 that serious concerns existed with US citizens having their catalytic converters removed and running lead gas. That was nothing compared to the Germans, who very vocally and quite often expressed their health concerns over Americans removing their converters and burning leaded, which would not happen in the US. Yes, there were officially (by direction of Federal government) health concerns in at least two nations concerning lead combustion. The gasoline sometimes took second chair to burning all high sulfur coal in the DoD boilers, and use of JP-6.

 

[QualityTime]

The blame game has started. What is confusing to me is that there is no focus on the City's incompetence. There is no focus on the State. Snyder is lying. The people at the Michigan DEQ wanted to keep their job and are in fear. Why is EPA being blamed for Flint? The EPA sets the limits and it is up to each State to follow it

 

[bimr]

"According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Michigan is the only state in the country providing fewer economic resources to its cities in 2012 than it did in 2002."

"But this approach fails to recognize, and in fact is in direct conflict with one of the fundamental tenants of Michigan’s municipal finance model, which is that the value of a community directly impacts the revenue that a community can generate to sustain services. It’s a system designed for failure."

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/...cities-set-stage-flint-water-crisis/81833160/

 

[cranky108]

There is also a story that i saw that many other city water systems have the same issue. Why is that not on the headlines?

This looks to me like a liberal media on a rebublican which hunt.

The fact is there are several government agencies that should be in question.

 

[JohnRBaker]

If the shoe fits...

John R. Baker, P.E.
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[IRstuff]

"rebublican[sic] which[sic] hunt"

Well, it seems to be a target-rich environment. One of these days, they'll realize that no matter what they call it when they trot it out again, "trickle-down" is an old and failed policy.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
faq731-376 forum1529

 

[swall]

Trickle-Down has never been tried the U.S.

 

[JohnRBaker]

And where were you in the 1980's. Ever heard of 'Reaganomics'? Even it's creator, Reagan's budget director David Stockman, eventually admitted that 'Supply-side' economics (AKA 'Reagonmics') was nothing more than a 'trickle-down' theory, which in the end, was unlikely to deliver the intended results.

John R. Baker, P.E.
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[swall]

And where were you in the '70's during Professor Alexander's lectures in Econ 101 and 102?

 

[IRstuff]

Professor Alexander has been proven wrong by history. Reagan left office with triple the deficit that he started with and the beginnings of the stagnated wages that everyone is PO'd about. This was more recently proved wrong with Bobby Jindal, who took office with a $1B+ surplus and left with a $1.6B deficit, in the name of growth through cutting taxes.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
faq731-376 forum1529

 

[swall]

When Reagan took over from Carter, the second good thing he did, other than cutting rates on income taxes, was to keep Paul Volker at the Federal Reserve. Volker tightened Fed monetary policies and it hurt a lot. But it got the U.S. economy out from under the horrendous inflation we had back then and put the economy back on track for growth. Economics is called the dismal science--it is not really a science. You can't do controlled experiments to see how one economic policy might fare compared to an alternative. And the bad results of the "science" can be dismal. The economy did well after Reagan through the Bush '41 and then the Clinton years.

 

[JohnRBaker]

And let's not forget Sam Brownback and the disaster that is now Kansas.

John R. Baker, P.E.
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[swall]

JohnRBaker--Yes,I am familiar with David Stockman. He soured on Reaganonomics (which was not "trickle-down") primarily because the deficits increased. The deficits increase was primarily due to increased military spending.

 

[hawkaz]

Yah- I get it, Democrats are ignorant and gullible, Republicans are heartless monsters bla bla bla

How about we move the political rants to the lawyers site and use the engineering forum for engineering.

 

[bimr]

There you go again.

"The deficits increase was primarily due to increased military spending." The deficit was not caused by military spending. The deficit began with the long and severe recession both in the U.S. and abroad that was initiated by the Fed's monetary policies.

Volker was just appointed by Carter in 1979. Why don't you give Carter credit if you liked the Volker policies?

There was also no reason to continue military spending after the fall of the Soviet Union (which was initiated by the Saudi drop in oil prices).

"Volcker recognized that ending inflation required commitment. It could not be painless or quick. Price inflation was around 11% when he began his term. At the end of his term eight years later, it was 4.2%, the U.S. had reclaimed world leadership and the Soviet Union was in its death throes - its finances ravaged by the price collapse of the commodities that were its only major exports. The trade weighted dollar index had risen from 85 to 135."

http://www.futurecasts.com/Meltzer, History of Federal Reserve, v. 2 (VIII).htm#Recession

of 1980-1982

http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/7736/how-saudi-arabia-weaponised-the-oil-markets/

 

[cranky108]

So what if we got rid of government wast, and cronyism, and cut taxes, as well as the quasi-government doing it's job without the political input. Maybe wishful thinking, but both parties seem to be deeply invested in this corruption we have. So please keep the politics out of it, and make the point that people should be held accountable.

Yes oversight is important, but can't be 100% to blame for a failure of a quasi-government doing the business that could be done by a non-profit or for profit corporation. None of these business types are perfect, and this is just one example of that. So who was the head, and why has this person not been prosecuted?

The time for finger pointing is over, fix the problem, prosecute the guilty person in change, and move on.

 

[boo1]

Where is the lead?

 

[swall]

Yes, bimr, Volker was indeed a Carter appointee. History has shown that Volker's policies were instrumental in getting rid of the high inflation that no one knew how to deal with. It was tough medicine.