Fusing two engines (welding) 3

[DOHC]

Hi,

I'm looking into fusing two exiting engines in to a V8 or V10, currently just seeing if there is a possibly way not that I'll be attempting it right away.
Could welding be strong enough to fuse two engines together practically and safely.

I've got two basic ideas,
All based off aluminium blocks for street use.

take two 4 or 5cyl engines and cut the lower end of the blocks at a 45 or 36 degree angle and weld the top parts together the lower part would need to be made custom for a custom crank shaft.

The other idea is to take two V6 engines and cutting them in two and connecting them in the middle running one crankshaft and set of camshafts.

I've heard and seen pretty big holes welded in engines but I'm still very sceptical that it would be practical for joining two engines.

Can anyone give me some more info on this? or other idea's.
Using a existing V8/10/12 isn't a option.

 

[Turborick]

It all makes sense, I was thinking on how to make life easier for the drive-train. so you think if I phase the engines together I shouldn't need any dampening between them?

Rick Yacoucci Nebulous Theorem II #988
Fastest 4 cylinder Bonneville 2 way average 352.525 mph
Nebulous Theorem III #788 Fastest Unblown Flathead 280 mph

http://www.bonnevillestreamliner.com

 

[gruntguru]

Lets just say that's your best chance of avoiding damping between the cranks. On the other hand, simultaneous firing will maximise the speed/torque variation applied to the drivetrain.

Engineering is the art of creating things you need, from things you can get.

 

[murpia]

E.g. create a V12 out of 2 V8s?

A V-16, you mean?

No, slice the blocks so the front 3 pairs of one and the rear 3 pairs of the other can be joined to make a 6 pair block with a single (new ) crank.

I'm assuming of course that the 'middle' 2 pairs of the V8 block casting are more similar to each other than they are to either the front or rear pairs.

In ASCII art terms:

If DOOQ is one bank of the V8, then the V12 is DOOOOQ

Regards, Ian

 

[gruntguru]

Or you could slice through the end bores and make a V14.

Engineering is the art of creating things you need, from things you can get.

 

[R34ztune]

You should read about the H1 V8. Its made of two Suzuki Hayabusa 1300 motocycle engines. The latest version of the Hayabusa makes 197hp inline-4, and V8 will make 394hp reving to 10krpm . See the

http://www.h1v8.com/

website. It contains lots of information and building process of the engine, with photos.

There are too many reason why want to join two engines into one. Past projects in the history I ever seen are all done on motorcycle engines. There a Wiliam's F1 engineer did such setup in UK many years ago (I forgot his name) who build a 2.0L V8 with 300hp .

Consider the weight of these engines. Imagine you can have a V8 engine that weight just about 100kg . This is even less than the weight of a typical inline-4 out of a 4-seater passenger car.

The Suzuki Hayabusa engine is a well known tough and light weight engine. There are many turbocharger kit flowing around and reported over 600hp output just for the inline-4. That means 1200hp on a V8. This engine is very attractive and is very good choice for light weight kit cars.

However, building such engine is very costly. To do it properly, you need a custom crankshaft. The H1 V8 didn't use custom camshafts because it kept the original firing order which is not a totally balanced V8. It is a pair of inline 4. H1 V8 took the way to sacrifice perfect balance, and choose a 72 degree V angle to minimize the engine packaging. To get the project properly done and achieving a fully balanced V8 engine, the engine should be 90 degree V, with each cylinder in 90 degree firing order. It will require a different crankshaft and custom camshaft. To save the cost of custom camshaft and achieving fully balance 8 cylinder engine is to go for boxer flat 8 setup. But this will have issues about oil/water flow in the engine which is not design how it meant to .

Welding is not a proper process of joining the two engine blocks. It will be too difficult to achieve the required tolerance and stiffness of the crank case. The crank case should be redesigned and CNC machined to achieve the proper tolerance. You will need to redesign the oil pumping system as well.

I think it does worth to redo the Hayabusa V8 engines to 90 degree, but who will have a deep pocket to support this crazy project? Unless I build my own kit car, then twin Hayabusa V8 is a must have item.

For joining other engines, what is the ultimate goal?

 

[murpia]

For joining other engines, what is the ultimate goal?

To create a 5.5l V12 diesel out of 2x 4.0l V8 diesels (with a destroked crank).

Regards, Ian

 

[R34ztune]

Find two decent inline-6, the balanced V angle is 60 degree. Why do you want to destroke the engine?

 

[murpia]

So I would get a 5.5l V12 not a 6.0l V12.

The application, the old diesel LMP1 regulations, have now gone. So it's purely a 'thought excercise' but I'm still curious none the less.

How would joining the inline 6 blocks be easier that the V8s?

Regards, Ian

 

[R34ztune]

Ian,

It will be nothing easy. the process is the same. For V12, it will be more expensive, your cam, crank will be longer and require more machining work . The larger than engine, the stronger the need for the crankcase and more difficulty in tolerance control.