Gravity-based energy storage tower developer notches a customer order 7

(Especially anything lauded by prancing MBAs, investment bankers and probable worshipers of Satan)

That's not just redundant, it's double redundant

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

It is pretty much an elevator loaded to capacity, going up and down continuously.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[JoshPlumSE]

A round trip efficiency of 75% isn't really that bad. What's the efficiency of storing energy in a battery and then pulling it out again? I don't think it's really any better than that. At least not long term.

I'm still not a fan of this solution. But, that's more because I don't believe the 75% efficiency number. And, when you factor in maintenance and construction costs I tend to believe that this will not be a workable solution.

 

Meanwhile I am getting busy finding out names and addresses for lucrative failure analysis opportunities in the very near future.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[SuperSalad]

Foundation work. The largest Energy Vault offered stores up to 80 megawatt hours. With an effective height difference of 60 meters this Energy Vault has to have a useful mass of 480,000 tons. The useless bottom half of the tower adds another 480,000 tons. Including the steel upright and lifting arms and a smooth floor of concrete or asphalt to be able to stack neatly, think in excess of 1,000,000 tons per 80MWh tower. That is twice the weight of the 830 meter high Burj Khalifa in Dubai, but on a much smaller diameter. Good luck with foundation works.

This was something I hadn't really considered in any other of my forays looking at this thing before.

- Andrew

 

[MJCronin]

I am truly glad, and thankful that this particular thread is getting more attention ....

Reasonable, experienced engineers have reasonable and well thought out observations.

I believe that eng-tips is one of the few places left on the internet with reasonable experienced engineers

I also believe that, like Vladmir Putin, the "Energy Vault" justification is a big lie, promulgated and trumpeted by prancing MBAs and other rabid worshipers of SATAN !

I really do not care if SPACs merge, investments go bad and people lose mountains of money .....

BUT I HATE LIES !!!

... and the economic viability of the ENERGY VAULT concept is built on technical and financial lies ...

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[rb1957]

I get that, though maybe "SATAN" was a little OTT.

but at the end of the day someone will get richer, and probably on the back of US taxpayers.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[SwinnyGG]

This was something I hadn't really considered in any other of my forays looking at this thing before.

This is a good point that I hadn't considered.

If you assume the blocks stack perfectly with no gaps, the foundation bearing pressure directly underneath the stack of block at 60 meters high is on the order of 30,000 psf.

Good luck with that.

 

[LittleInch]

To be a little fair, this thread which I know some others here are following inc MJC,

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=493816

shows that they seem to be moving away from the stacked tower as it plainly doesn't work into more of a structure which has addressed some of the key weaknesses of the tower system. It now though needs a vast amount of space, but I guess in many places where there is a lot of sun or wind that might not be a big issue. Even then it's cost per MWh stored is still very high. Key possible advantage is that the energy stored does not decay over time, but not really sure if that's enough of an advantage and getting the overall efficiency north of 75% may be more challenging than they think.

Now what you do with the now useless tower they have just built I don't know, but guess that's where how these companies mange to burn through HUGE volumes of cash.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[dik]

I suspect there will be a lot of snake oil coming out of the woodwork...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[LittleInch]

Only if the snake oil is heavier than concrete...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[dik]

It can be... depends on the supplier.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

nah, depends on the customer ... "you want heavy snake oil ? we got it !" ... "you want light snake oil? we got that too"

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[dik]

Hehehehehhe...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

I believe that eng-tips is one of the few places left on the internet with reasonable experienced engineers

The retired Metengr is sorely missed...

Meanwhile I am developing a line of Eco-snakeoil wellness products for anyone here interested in a surefire investment opportunity.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[LionelHutz]

For the tower, what's so unimpressive is that they claim their EV1 or CDU test tower was completed almost 2 years ago, but the best I can find is a picture with a 4 level stack of blocks. Where is the video of it stacking a decent array of blocks up and then taking that stack back down? Heck, even a video of it stacking a few levels of blocks back and forth? It doesn't appear very functional.

I think the building idea has been pictured on the web site for a while now. They likely are pushing it because they haven't been able to make the tower work right during the last 2 years of testing.

I also like how the web site words them as product offerings. Don't they mean product ideas?

 

[MJCronin]

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/04/2...0-market-cap-co2e-kwh-worse-than-natural-gas/

Energy Vault Loses $1.2 Billion/40% Market Cap, CO2e/KWh Worse Than Natural Gas !!

Energy Vault’s solution which ‘fixes’ the problems with its first approach leads to CO2e per kWh numbers worse than natural gas generation, and makes a mockery of its claims of low cost storage.


MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[SnTMan]

Shocked! Shocked I tell you..


The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[LittleInch]

Amazing how the price spiked right around April Fools day....

Great article and shows how one or two people with outdated agendas can direct vast amounts of cash into stupid ideas.

People like Gates want to save the world with grand ideas and "New" technology. Put most of it is a terrible idea when you actually do some design and numbers, you know Enginnering it used to be called.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[SnTMan]

Wonder how much the principals socked away before the collapse?

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand