Grenfell Towers Redux 1

[dik]

From info this AM...

https://www.constructioncanada.net/...=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=news

Grenfell was a failure of the building envelope... this tends to point the finger away from those responsible for the original tragedy.


Dik

 

[moon161]

Right? It was because rich people didn't want to see a building that wasn't shiny, so they covered it in an unrelated disaster.

 

[jayrod12]

I don't understand how they are connecting a high rise, concrete structure building, cladding fire with timber construction.

 

[TenPenny]

That was my thought as well.

A concrete building with poorly designed / installed cladding burns? Okay, we'll ban timber buildings over four storeys. That should fix it.

I know that when my kids spill a drink on the couch, a good solution is to ask my wife to no longer vacuum the bathroom. The connection is obvious.

 

[LittleInch]

"It was because rich people didn't want to see a building that wasn't shiny, so they covered it in an unrelated disaster."

Let's not get carried away here - the intent behind the cladding was a good one - to insulate the buildings externally and reduce the horrendous energy loss from these single skin concrete buildings. External insulation was the easiest and cheapest way to add insulation to the building.

The method chosen was to add 150mm PIR foam blocks to the external surface and then a secondary weather protection layer which was "shiny" with a ventilation gap to prevent moisture entering the building. Unfortunatley they decided to clad the building in a material which if if caught fire burned to such an extent it took the whole building and 71 people with it. The public inquiry to investigate it has been partly suspended. If you're interested here the initial summary report oont he fire itself.

https://assets.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/GTI - Phase 1 report Executive Summary.pdf

https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/phase-1-report

For sure this tragedy / disaster in materials has concentrated minds on how buildings should be built or renovated and hence there is a more risk averse culture to any tall building where the "stay in place" advice might not be the best plan.

So I don't think anyone is directly linking the two, but the whole GT disaster is brought up as a spectre of what can go wrong.

The report is now being reviewed after receiving comments. My guess is that it will be a compromise as usual and we get 5 story timber buildings.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[JohnRBaker]

For those who've been following this:

Adele Fights Back Tears Honoring Victims Of Grenfell Tower Fire 3 Years Later

The singer appeared during a virtual memorial service on the third anniversary of the London fire that claimed the lives of 72 people.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/adel...fire-3-years-later_n_5ee8bd70c5b6881c9291090b

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

Just in...
"Four employees of a company which made the cladding used at Grenfell Tower are refusing to give evidence to the public inquiry.

Three French and one German employee of Arconic say they might breach a law in France which prevents evidence being given to proceedings abroad.

But inquiry lawyer Richard Millett QC said it was hard to imagine they would be punished for giving evidence."

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[human909]

It goes back a few months but the reaction of limiting heights of timber framed buildings seem absurd and reactionary. As I'm sure most of us are aware, timber is not necessarily inferior to steel construction from a fire perspective.

We've come a long way in a few hundred years and now, due better engineering and hard lessons learnt, fire is no long the severe threat it used to be. Most structures beyond single residential dwellings can adequately resist fire.

Grenfell is simply a wake up call that we cannot let our standards slip. (To be honest we had many warning signs prior). New technology, new materials and new designs cannot be simply implemented with thought to the fire risk.

Unfortunately, history has shown it seems no different with this tragedy. Fire engineer is reactionary. Most reforms occur following disasters.

 

[dik]

...and there doesn't seem to be a professional that is responsible for this tragedy.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[ProEpro]

https://www-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...y-is-uncovering-a-major-corporate-scandal/amp

The panels where marketed using inappropriate or inadequately explained testing and installed in ways that were not supported buy the tests.

 

[LittleWheels]

I won't be rushing to spec Kingspan on future projects.

 

[dik]

With no professional involved in the selection of same?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

Oh, there were architects involved, if you consider architecture a profession.

 

[dik]

Hokie: I sometimes wonder...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[FacEngrPE]

Professional engineer in UK does not imply a government issued license to practice engineering. In the UK the Engineering Council

https://www.engc.org.uk/

issues these titles to "qualified individuals".
[ul]
[li] Engineering Technician (EngTech)[/li]
[li] Incorporated Engineer (IEng)[/li]
[li] Chartered Engineer (CEng)[/li]
[li] Information and Communications Technology Technician (ICTTech)[/li]
[/ul]

It appears that the Grenfell Towers tragedy has created some movement in the direction of regulating Architects, as part of proposed Building Safety Law.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consu...ed-amendments-to-the-regulation-of-architects

 

[epoxybot]

Here are a few posts from the conclusion of the 2nd phase of the Grenfell inquiry.
It just keeps getting more & more disturbing.

How the products used in Grenfell Tower’s cladding system were tested and sold Link

Grenfell Tower Inquiry expert’s son is head of fire safety at RBKC Link

'Fake credentials' of Grenfell assessor: Fire risk consultant who downplayed safety concerns invented his qualifications Link

 

[dik]

...and everyone seems to be walking away from the human death toll...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

But of course which usually means the really guilty party is the government or public organisation.

 

[dik]

Pretty much what I thought from day one...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[FacEngrPE]

It is regrettable, but just like the international shipping safety conventions, building code improvements are underwritten in blood.

https://www.assp.org/news/2021/03/24/the-triangle-shirtwaist-factory-fire-an-american-tragedy[/URL]]
The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire: An American Tragedy
March 25, 1911. This date will forever stand as one of the most tragic days in American workplace history. At 4:40 p.m. the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory in the Asch Building in New York City caught fire. Though the fire lasted only 18 minutes, it claimed the lives of 146 people. There were 123 women and girls who perished, some as young as 14 years old.

One of the results of the above was for a building code requirement that fire escapes open in the direction of escape.

Fred