Hurricanes, Sea water, Corrosion and EV's 13

[enginesrus]

https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/

It appears Li Ion battery's don't do so good with sea water, corrosion, and hurricane's. Many other threads on the net explain the tons of water
that the fire people need to attempt to extinguish the fires. I would like to see the pollution figures of an EV fire.
And on topic the pollution figures of all operations required to manufacture those battery's.

 

[TugboatEng]

How many have actually caught on fire?. Heck, that's probably good news. A self-destructing flood car keeps people from getting ripped off in the future.

 

[LionelHutz]

Considering water is the wrong thing to fight the fire with, its no surprise a lot gets used.

 

[BrianPetersen]

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/10/07/florida-state-fire-marshal-tells-crazy-lie-about-evs/

 

[DrZoidberWoop]

If my car is on fire, pollution is the last thing on my mind.

More seriously tho, EV's have a lot of practical environmental issues to overcome. It will be interesting to see how they develop to withstand immediate events, like flooding, and long-term issues, like road-salt corrosion in the undercarriage.

 

[BrianPetersen]

The overall rate of EVs catching fire is lower than the rate of combustion-engine vehicles catching fire, and the difference is not small.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/377006/nmber-of-us-highway-vehicle-fires/

You will note that the general trend for total vehicle fires has been going down significantly. Fuel system integrity is much better now than it has been in decades past, and electrical systems are designed better.

But nevertheless ... 173,000 vehicle fires per year recently.

Here's how many registered vehicles:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183505/number-of-vehicles-in-the-united-states-since-1990/

So this is about 1 in 1500 registered vehicles has a fire reported per year.

Let us examine the much-maligned Chevrolet Bolt, the earlier years of which were subject to a massive recall because of a combination of manufacturing defects that were discovered in the battery cells upon investigation.

About 140,000 are on the road, and these have covered model years 2017 to 2022. Let's say that on average, these cars have been on the road for 3 years. So that's 420,000 vehicle-years.

There have been a grand total of 24 vehicle fires:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2020/INCLA-PE20016-1161.PDF

(you will note that their vehicle population number is different, it covers only 2017-2020 models. The faults responsible for the problem are believed to have been corrected when LG started manufacturing batteries in a different plant in 2019, but LG can't "prove" that the faults have been corrected, hence the recall being extended to the newer ones even though substantially all of the fires involved 2017-2019 models.)

That is one in 17,500 vehicle-years ... and the part of this that was GM's supplier's fault has been identified and corrected and is not present in the new ones.

There's a Chevrolet Bolt sitting my driveway ... a new one, that has been built with the corrected battery pack. I am not worried about it catching fire.

 

[BrianPetersen]

And here's an analysis of the Tesla situation:

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/08/its-extremely-rare-for-teslas-to-spontaneously-catch-on-fire/

Also somewhere-near one-tenth the risk of the average vehicle on the road catching fire.

 

[hokie66]

Unrelated, but a friend of mine pointed out a problem with EV's being used for long distance driving. They make you fat. Every stop for recharge takes a bit of time, encouraging consumption of fast food.

 

[TugboatEng]

BP, those are very disingenuous representations of the data. Yes, gas cars are more likely to catch fire than electric cars for all causes. But, are you really saying that gas cars are also more likely to catch fire after being submerged?

The key here is that there has been a mass flooding event and now there may be (nobody has provided data) a surge in fires of electric cars. This could be a problem considering the difficulty of extinguishing an electric car fire.

The latent risk also needs to be considered. Water in a battery pack may not short it out right away. Older packs may be more prone to leakage. If someone were to take their flooded car home and park it in the garage under their apartment complex with its fire suppression system designed for gas cars, a spontaneous combustion could be very bad.

 

[phamENG]

hokie - the opposite argument could be made. Gas cars fuel up quickly, encouraging the consumption of fast food or gas station snacks. EV charge times take longer, so you have more time to seek out a healthier meal.

I'd say neither are even remotely accurate - you're going to eat what you're going to eat. The car you drive will have little impact on what you choose.

 

[hokie66]

My friend reported his experience in Australia. It takes a bit of investigation to locate charging points here. Some of the small towns have only one or two charging points, and if there is someone in front of you, takes time. And his experience was that they are located near bakeries or at petrol stations. Bacon and egg rolls and vanilla slices add up.

 

[BrianPetersen]

In 4000+ km, mine has yet to be recharged anywhere except at home overnight.

 

[JohnRBaker]

One of the early Tesla charging stations that I saw out on the open road was when we stopped at the 'Harris Ranch', which is on the I-5, about half-way between LA and San Francisco. Now 'Harris Ranch' is a sort of oasis in the middle of the San Joaquin Valley, complete with gas station, restaurant, gift shop, meat market (Harris Ranch is famous for its beef) and hotel:

June 2016 (Sony a6000)

One of the more unusual locations where I spotted an EV charging station was on one of my many drives along 'Route 66'. There's a small town, Shamrock, Texas, which was one of the popular stops along the old 'Route 66' and the town has tried to maintain that 1950's feel, like their restoration, complete with lots of neon, of one of the iconic 'Route 66' landmarks, the 'U Drop Inn', which was a combination gas station/restaurant (it's now a small museum):

October 2018 (Sony a6000)

But what caught my eye on that particularly trip were the Tesla charging stations in the parking lot, next to an icon from an era, when driving the 'Mother Road' was all the rage:

October 2018 (Sony a6000)

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

This should solve all of your charging issues.

https://www.larsonelectronics.com/p...-3-charger-2-ports-150-gallon-tank-skid-mount

 

[SnTMan]

I had envisioned something like that. Just need to mount it in a truckbed or trailer. Offer mobile service. Sell out to AAA. Retire

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[JohnRBaker]

Already been done:

https://www.sparkcharge.io/pages/charging-as-a-service

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[hokie66]

I promise to restrict my future posts about EV’s to the joke thread, where they belong.

 

[TugboatEng]

This is going to be the reality as the electric vehicle charging infrastructure doesn't exist and states like CA have their heads so far up their keister they can't see the problem. Alas, we leave our future in the hands of those that don't have to experience it.

We'll bring a battery to you to charge your battery... How an engineer can support such an exchange is beyond me. Has the world forgotten about entropy? Oh my, I just realized something.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I belong to AAA, and have for over 30 years, and if I were to run out of gas, one phone call and I'll have someone there with a can of gas, at least enough to get to the next station.

Tug, how is that any different than what you're talking about?

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

Just like using excess water every day, it's a cumulative problem. Using a diesel generator to charge an electric car in an emergency is one thing but charging every electric car by diesel due to a lack infrastructure is self defeating.