HVAC Details and explanations

[walkes]

This is just a shot in the dark...

About 12 years ago the firm I was with had a binder of HVAC details along with reasons for the incorporation of various components and their locations. The package of details was purchased. The explanations were written by a gentleman that was at one time a plumbing contractor and then had gone back to school to get his engineering degree.

I am trying to find this document as I thought it may be helpful to junior designers, and may also provide insight into situations we may not see frequently.

I have asked former co-workers at that firm, but nobody seems to know anything about it.

Any thoughts?

 

[trashcanman]

Do you mean "CAPITOLINE TRANS-A-PLATE DESIGN MANUAL FOR HVAC & PLBG. BY LEE KENDRICK"?

 

[walkes]

That may possibly be it. Looks like I'm out of luck though.

 

[ChrisConley]

I found a PDF online, but my work filter disabled the site as 'illegal or unethical'... I'm guessing it is a file sharing site.

I'm going to try at home (after verifying that the site is not in fact illegal). If I have any luck I'll let you know.

 

[walkes]

Thanks Chris, my work filter won't let me go there either. I keep forgetting to check at home.

 

[cdxx139]

Wouldnt it be great if there was a site that did have all these HVAC design info in pdf format for all to view. I guess it would be a copyright infringement.

I have seen the book trashcan mentions. Great old school book. Makes me embarrassed of the lack of detail some of my drawings go out, compared to what the old tymers used to do. My boss says the same thing, but in the same breath, he tells me the budget for my next project has been reduced by 10% to get the job.. "so watch your hours." and unfortunately details equals hours.

(this last line may belong in the rave and rant sction, my aplogies for going off topic)

 

[Zesti]

> Makes me embarrassed of the lack of detail some of my
> drawings go out, compared to what the old tymers
> used to do.

Well, maybe not always: I have seen old drawings (25 years) where a simple schematic was enough for the people on site to put together the entire pump-setup with valves etc.

Nowadays, complete 3D-drawings would be made with several different views of the complete setup.

 

[Waramanga]

I agree zesti,
I have seen 40 year old design drawings that are basicaly single line diagrams with a few notes. I think that tradesmen were much better back then. I was talking to a old timer who did his refrigeration apprenticeship in Germany and the training they did was (and he says still is ) bordering on an engineering degree, albeit with 2 years of full time work experience thrown in. So i guess if you know that the tradesman is going to know how to do the job properly then you dont have to give him half a dozen 3d images to get the job done correctly.

 

[willard3]

I have done arbitration in my career and "typical details" cause more actionable problems than you can imagine.

You are an Engineer: figure out how the stuff works for your project and show it on the drawings.

 

[cdxx139]

Can you elaborate willard3, for us greener engineers?

 

[mauricestoker]

Since I've loaned the book (Kendrick)out to green engineers and they've copied the details, or have used other standard detail libraries without thought, I can answer. It's led to several mod's and money.

The details were developed about 30 years ago as a compilation of existing practices. Copying details for 3-way valves, plumbing to older standards, pressure dependent devices, etc. does not always get picked up by in-house review, and quite often not by bidders. Same time specification will be saying no mercury, details have mercury thermometers. The absence of pressure indepdnedent devices in a lot of the older standard details has led to repeated problems. One recurring area is that drawings, sequences, and details don't consider energy codes or minimum OA requirements. Details don't consider ASHRAE recommendations and guidelines. Basically, using old drawings and details without consideration if they meet specifications or current code can save time up front, and the people in the field can cost and schedule the mod.

 

[willard3]

Typical details are given to young Engineers to speed up drawing production. Young Engineer puts them on the drawings not understanding how the detail is to work and, since the client has his knickers in a twist to meet a schedule that he has screwed up already, drawings are sent out not so thoroughly reviewed as they should be.

Drawings go out too early and bidders pick up the really stupid stuff and addenda after addenda are sent out. During construction, the mechanic asks if you really wanted a diverting valve on this coil and it becomes clear a mixing valve was required.

Whatever time was made up to meet an unrealistic schedule is lost in spades with addenda and change orders and, if the client sees a lot of this, he sues the Engineer.

 

[cdxx139]

willard, you just explained 90% of my projects. thanke for the input

 

[Waramanga]

so willard,
am i right in assuming that you dont have a problem with typical details except in the hands of people who couldnt actually create the detail in the first place?

 

[hvacprojectsff]

How to calculate friction losses and pipe sizing

 

[cdxx139]

I almost forgot, you know who has nice details that are ok to copy, check the military branches and the VA hospital websites.

As stated earlier, all details should be tailored to the job, but great starting point.

knowledge is power

 

[walkes]

Finally got my hands on the book by Kendrick, it is a good resource but not what I was looking for.

Thanks all.

 

[CountOlaf]

hvacprojectsff:

Objection; relevancy your honor!