Ideal working conditions 4

[ziggi]

The title says it all, this is a side thread from the High employee turnover thread.

The basic gist is that I'm the sort of person who takes a pay cut to work in a position I know I'd enjoy. I went the cash is king route straight out of univ, I hated it and my work reflected my feelings. I tried the do what you like route the second time around, for less pay, and I did exceptionally well, more so than any of my predecessors.

An ideal company for me would be one wherein I can work flexible hours, has a strong company ethos (ie. lots of planned events) and a friendly and relaxed atmosphere. It should also want to send me out to conferences, training etc. and it should understand that I'm a family man first, then a company man.
Ideally if they want to keep me, my workplace should be like a second home, I should not stressed about being in late, nor should I prostrate myself before my boss when my kid ends up in the principals office and I need to go there ASAP.
I'd be willing to work for less money in such a place. And I think quite alot of people from my generation would agree (late 20s/early 30s).

What are your ideal working environments? And what sort of work/workplace would make you work for less pay?

 

[CanuckMiner]

ziggi,

I have worked in such an environment right out of school (University) a dozen years ago. The pay was not so great to begin with, and for years I was making much less than the median in the published salary guidelines for my region. However, the "environment" was relaxed and a good fit for me. The pay level has increased to a point well above the median, and in good times there are even substantial bonuses.

I had an opportunity a few years ago to move to another company that offered greater job security and better pay. I hesitated because I liked my job (and my colleagues and employer) and eventually declined the offer. As it turns out, the fellow that was hired for the other position was laid off after about a year due to downsizing at the company.

I consider myself lucky to have found employment with a decent employer who treats me fairly. In response, I have been loyal and up front with my employer and have been compensated well for it.

I occasionally look at other opportunities, but it would take an incredible offer to make me move...certainly more than just a few extra dollars to pay the tax man.

Cheers,
CanuckMiner

 

[ddelaiarro]

ziggi - I'm basically in line with your thoughts. I'm much more apt to perform well in a place where I am doing what I love and feel like part of the team. The second part is key. I'm about your age (27) and have worked in both large and small places. I most definitely excel at the smaller places. I find that seeing my contribution working for the company is far more rewarding than a big pay check. I also like being able to see the direction that the company is really going as opposed to just being a cog in the wheel that doesn't really get to see the path that we're following. I like to know what I'm really working towards. I also love to work for people who encourage learning.

Actually, one of the reasons I'm leaving my current post (tomorrow is my last day) is because I got offered a job at a smaller firm that embodies all these issues: [ul][li]there's no set work hours - you get in somewhere between 8 and 9:30 and leave when you feel like you've put in a full day[/li][li]it's a family atmosphere - they actually structured their healthplan over all the employees' (and their spouse's/kids') doctors and made sure that no one would be interrupted or disturbed in their coverage[/li][li]they are BIG promoters of training and keeping up in the industry (to the point where they are contemplating some kind of mandatory quarterly training for everyone)[/li][li]it's a very friendly atmosphere - I've been getting 2-3 phone calls/wk from the guys there asking me how the transistion is going, whether I wanted to join the gym down the street, that there's a driving range nearby, etc.[/li][/ul]
And, I'm making a lateral move, pay-wise, for this position. That being said, I probably would have taken a pay cut for it.

 

[Heckler]

I'm currently working for a company with 160 employees. The company was started by one person from a college senior project. We are a leader in our industry with more than 40 years of knowledge base. Their is very little turn over within the professional ranks. That was one of my main concerns when interviewing my currently boss and coworkers. Prior to my current position I had worked for two small companies that was hell on earth. The owners were uneducted morons that were threatened by the engineers they hired to run the place.

My sister with her PhD. in Psychology has always advised me that the person at the top of the organization will imprint his/her personality on the organization. If they're nice honest demanding people, then the org will be on a fairly even keel. If they're a whacko psycho backstabbing evil SOB, then the whole place will be neurotic and dysfunctional.

Best Regards,

Heckler
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[ccor]

For me the company events are usually forced, if not painful, and I honestly don’t care to feel like part of a second family either, but having a friendly and comfortable atmosphere is important. The core values of the perfect company for me would mirror my core values: leadership, quality, and virtue. They all three come together in doing the right thing, and doing it the right way. Both the ends and the means are important. Leadership manifests itself in a commitment to doing the best work (quality and training), a clear corporate vision, and being morally, environmentally, and socially responsible. Quality is being dedicated to the customer’s vision, making deadlines, providing design that goes beyond design that works to what is good design, and producing clear, complete, and error free deliverables. Virtue is simply moral excellence, which fits right with the other two. As for the position within this firm, I want to work on interesting projects, and project that I believe in. Preferably both. I want a job I enjoy enough that overtime isn’t as painful, and I don’t feel like I have to find a way to retire early. I just wish I had a way of candidly evaluating this in a normal job interview!

 

[ajack1]

I think a lot depends on circumstances, when I was much younger I would work for who paid the most money. There were probably two reasons for this, firstly it was a real struggle to pay the mortgage and the bills and secondly I was the best thing since sliced bread and ready to change the world and as whoever I worked for was too stupid to realise this it really didn’t matter who I worked for. The world was very black and white back then and cash was king.

As I have grown older so much of the world is now grey and whilst I cannot afford everything I might want there is nothing that I need that is out of my range. My happiness is far more important than the size of my pay cheque.

I wonder what would happen if I could not pay my mortgage again?

 

[AndrewTX]

My current employer has several of the characteristics listed by Ziggi, CanuckMiner and ddelaiarro. That is why when the company had a three year salary freeze almost no one left the company.

After working for three different companies over the last 3 years, the flexible work hours are by far the best benefit of my current company. That alone is worth less pay. The work environment here is the best I've experienced. when I first joined here 5 years ago my wife said it was very obvious that I was not feeling as stressed as I had been with my old job.

However, our local engineering market is getting very hot so now there is turnover. Also, as the company has grown from 400 to 2000 employees and is now owned by a global corporation, there is some unease about how the culture may change for the worse. That concern does have me looking at other options, but finding a company with an environmen like this one will be very tough.

 

[keepinitcool]

I've worked somewhere where time has just gone by, and I didn't even notice. Unfortunately the pay does not keep up with the region's cost of living.

The nice thing is I used to work only 4 days a week (4x10). And while that was a little tough for getting up in the morning, I always thought of it as having almost half a week to myself every week. That's close to 50% of the year to yourself.

I've seen some other companies on interviews and didn't care for the sardine feeling. One place crammed a number of people in a small area with some partition walls. Another place had no partitions and a bunch of people were in the big rooms with desks all touching each other.

Flex-hours is definitely a nice thing to have, given the unpredictability of communting these days.

Definitely you have to have leadership that understands the whole business and can incorporate their ideas with the other employees to make the place a team effort so everyone can succeed. Otherwise people will not stay too long unless the money is good.

 

[ScottyUK]

Chase the money while you are young, at least for long enough to gather some money to put up a decent deposit on your house or take a big bite out of your mortgage. After that, I'm with ziggi - find somewhere you enjoy working.

We used to have a real family sprirt in my department, born out of long hours, coarse humour, and the need to trust each other implicitly while working on equipment where someone doing their job wrong could have a very negative outcome. Lately there seems to be a determination to undermine that comradeship from various misguided individuals elevated beyond their ability, and it is making me restless.

----------------------------------

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

 

[corus]

The ideal working environment depends on three things: the pay, the work, the people. If one of those three things doesn't match up to my expecations then I can handle it. If two or more things don't then it's time to move on.

As for flexible working hours, that should apply in any job. There should always be some give and take in any company. A flexi-time system, however, where you clock in and out is a backward step for engineers who consider them as professionals and a big administrative headache for management. Keep away from it.

corus

 

[rhodie]

If it was easy, they wouldn't call it "work."

 

[flch95]

i agree 100% corus..those are my 3 criteria as well, but i would add "working hours" to it. i do think that you can survive on two of the four though.

 

[casseopeia]

I have pretty close to that ideal work environment now, but it comes at a price. You just have to get to that stage in life where you realize the price is worth it.

My path was similar to many. I went for the most pay right out of school. That ended up being a structural engineering firm that specialized in erection procedure even though I graduated with an architectural degree. Loved the job, but had to leave to work in building design in order to get my license as an architect. Left design for another engineering firm that specialized in forensics and found my true passion.

Left that for my own company where I learned humility. As an employee often you do not realize that a business owner is squeezed on all sides. Employees squeeze you for money/time off/coming-in-late-without feeling guilty, Clients squeeze every last dime out of your fee, and the government takes what's left over.

Gave up my ownership stake during a very bitter 2-year battle that included a divorce. He got the company. I hit rock bottom and barely got out with my sanity.

Took some time off (18 months) and evaluated my life. Went back to school and I am currently working towards an engineering masters degree. Started working where I am now, making about half of what I did when I had my own company. But now I have the freedom to pursue other interests. When things are slow, I study or do homework at my desk. I leave work early on Tuesdays for belly dancing rehearsal. During the summer months, I leave work early on Thursdays as well to perform at the local Farmers Market just blocks from the office. I am lucky to have an employer that tolerates such things.

I have alternate Fridays off. And I have the knowledge that I have the ability to survive, and rise above, some pretty devastating blows to life-path and career. I understand my employers position, but I also know he gets someone with a great deal of knowledge and skill for not much money. And I know I can walk out the door and survive. THAT'S POWER!

The trade off is being happier but living without things that are no longer important to me. I didn't even KNOW what was unimportant until I had it taken away.

I don't think there is a shortcut to that point, however.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

I don't think there is a shortcut to that point

I think your post just created one!


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[arunmrao]

A special star to you casseopia,especially as you have faced all the tribulations as a woman business person. I admire. I can very well appreciate when you refer to value all those things which normally one takes for granted and does not appreciate.

"And I have the knowledge that I have the ability to survive, and rise above, some pretty devastating blows to life-path and career. "


Yes this brute courage and confidence comes up once you have gone through the fire. Friends my age are worried about job loss,retrenchment etc,though they have huge bank balances. I do not have any savings and I survive order to order. yet I am more positive in meeting life as it comes.
Cheers! once again to you casseopia.

 

[ziggi]

I've only been out of univ for a few years and I think I've gone through the gamut, I've done fun work, boring work, management work and useless work. Unfortunately the fun work was few and far between, the boring work paid well (so I stayed too long), the management work came too early in my career and I become one of those idiots who gets elevated and then tries to prove themselves by being a prick (I ended up doing better when I realised I didn't ACTUALLY need to manage) and the useless work is everpresent (can you say documentation, signed, stamped, dated, and in triplicate?).

The company I'm working for now, is close to my ideals, still some issues, but it sure beats the other places I've worked. They're flexible with emergency issues here, but not with coming in and leaving, which doesn't help if you want to beat traffic. I've resorted to coming in early and leaving late to avoid traffic, it makes me look good without actually working (I squeeze some reading in).

I also like Corus' three criteria model but I usually start looking for another job when I notice that my present job is affecting my attitude towards my family.

I agree with Heckler and the psycho babble, I worked in one place where the boss was a lying, cheating, SOB, and consequently everyone covered his/hers own behind and did whatever they could to screw everyone else over. At another place the owner was a complete and total f-up, he was lazy, paranoid and insecure, consequently so were his employees and turnover was high.

 

[casseopeia]

Thanks arunmrao, and a star right back at you for the positive attitude in the face of your own circumstances!



"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"