Is anyone else bitter about work? 37

[shadow401]

I don’t know if it’s the engineering field, Corporate America, or just me but does anyone really love being an engineer anymore? Sure, it pays the bills but is anyone actually excited to show up to work in the morning?

Most of the people I work with have become cynical and are more interested in making themselves look good then completing a project. Engineers, developers, government agencies, inspectors, contractor, and sub-contractors are all on different teams and only looking out for their own interests. Even within my own company different departments try to push each other down to appear more profitable. Lazy employees get promoted over hard working employees and it feels like some fundamental rule that we learned in kindergarten about being fair and doing what’s right has been lost. I used to love the though of becoming an engineer but after 7 years of the real world, I just don’t care anymore. Am I alone?

 

[Waidesworld]

Our layoffs during our tough period last year were the three highest earners who had a combined 80 plus years here at the company. Of those three, I'd have only kept one if it was my decision and that's purely based on contribution to the company's coffers.

The fact that you lay off with no redundancy package here in the US is still something I can't understand. Why the so called Unions allowed this to happen all those years ago is beyond me. And at this point in time, I don't see it ever coming around.

Redundancy can bit you in the arse. When Waterford Crystal (yup, the glass company) had some voluntary redundancies about 20 years ago, a lot of people who took them were highly skilled and trained as glass cutters. All of a sudden there was a glass cutter working out of his basement in every townland in the country, using cheaper glass imported and a small investment in a grinding wheel. This eventually led to the closure of Waterford in 2009 and the loss of an icon in the industry. The fact that people don't value glass as much any more didn't help either.

drawn to design, designed to draw

 

[GregLocock]

But the Waterford example is just an example of good things about downturns -if a bloke in basement can knock out decent glassware that people are prepared to buy, why did Waterford continue to exist?



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[debodine]

From tunalover:

"I'm pretty happy as engineer but must admit that I sometimes resent watching guys with business degrees getting jobs in Marketing and Sales then seeing how they get offices rather than sharing cubicles like the engineers. Those guys also make better money then the engineers. It was the engineers who in college were slaving over mechanics of materials on Friday night while the business majors were out having drinks!"

Sad but true, and further proof of the old adage, "It's not what you know but who you know." Why do you think they spent all that time networking and making acquaintances? Yes, partly to consume large amounts of alcohol, but also to create that network of "buddies" that will keep them in those offices, cracking the whip over us cubicle dwellers. )

 

[moltenmetal]

GMcD: a good friend of mine left the commercial/industrial structural eng rat race and built a specialist practice doing large numbers of residential projects. He's doing very well for himself.

If the builders are eating your lunch, become a design-builder- and keep the savings you generate from better engineering- more efficient use of materials, higher efficiency in your work, more accurate drawings etc. But of course if the only way people can make money is to under-bid and then change-order their way to a profit, your engineering skills and ethics might be a hindrance...If nobody is making any money in building construction, or at least not honestly, find another industry- one that's profitable.

It took a layoff to get me to make the move to another industry, but that layoff was the best thing that ever happened to me.

 

[GMcD]

MoltenMetal: How true - I left a design-build place due to the ethics and quality issues that got in the way - the constant struggle between construction profitability and design quality, and what the Owner really wanted, always a fine line when design and construction are under the same company.

Yes, I have to find something that will bring the fun back into the career, even if it means a lower level position.

 

[TDAA]

Nice discussion.

Ajax, I do not think that the re is really a way around layoffs, although, the wife said she read something about a county not allowing business to perform layoff. Sounded like a fairytale to me, or perhaps just a good quality internet truth. Apparently it was stated that there was actually better moral and production due to this.

Some things from my view. These contribute to my bitterness about business. Yes, there are exceptions to these views.

Trickle down economics is not a good system.
It encourages those at the top to get richer by giving only as much back that you absolutely have to the people that help you get there. In the US, when the downturns happened, the owners of business, and the Republican party called for tax cuts for business, to help create jobs. Now, I can see it saving some for a while (more money before the pinch point), but when was the last time you saw a business decide to hire,because the was more money, but not enough work?

Managers should have a plan, not be able to predict the future.
My last company did not have a plan. "We have been through this before." was the cry heard throughout the office. Some offices continued with the expensive Christmas parties (ours cut back to crap, making people bitter when the newsletter came out - via US post, another waste) Well, the scope of the downturn hit them like a ton of bricks. They quickly thought through what to do and came up with a "plan". Once implemented, they re-thought, and determined that was not enough, rinse and repeat. The items differed from pay cuts, to layoffs, but there was no real understanding of would this achieve the goal. So, after several iterations, I was let go with some others. I knew it was coming, and left with a smile. I felt liberated, but most people left behind were bitter. The good ones with ambition have been leaving there.

Salary cuts and furloughs.
The concept of salary has been lost. It is defined as fixed compensation for services. Sure, I am not indicating that it should never be adjusted, but the intent is that I will engineer what we have, look for new work, etc. for $X. I think the US takes advantage of the "at will" situation, and says if you don't like it, leave. What comes next from the cuts for an undetermined amount of time? Will we be going to $X this week to $Y next week, and $Z the following week, depending on the workload? Furloughs are a bit better, because you get some time off out of the deal, but you have just become an hourly employee without the benefits of overtime. That's right, you now get to get paid less, and potentially work the same average hours, just more one week than the other.

 

[moltenmetal]

To those of you who care, this is small departure from the original thread topic. The last paragraph ties it back in, though.

GMcD: in my opinion it’s not the design/build model that’s at fault- it’s the competitive and regulatory environment that makes it difficult for honest people to make an adequate living in your industry.

Having the engineer responsible for both design and construction in both financial and professional terms actually makes a great deal of sense in a lot of ways for both the engineer and the owner. In that case, there’s one-stop shopping for the owner as to who to blame when things go wrong! Frankly they don’t care who screwed up- the designer or the constructor- they just want it fixed, NOW, and at somebody else’s cost- and they’ve every right to want that. While it generates at least the illusion of solving an ethical dilemma, separating design from construction can create plenty of problems too- problems that take effort, time and money to solve. Ultimately, that’s the client’s money.

I’d argue that the separation of engineering design from fabrication and the largest portion of the value chain has been one of the many reasons for the gradual demise of our profession. We provide a service which the client is usually unqualified to judge the quality of- a service whose true value might only be realized after thirty years of ownership. That’s why they hire us, and why we’re considered a profession. Rather than capturing the entire value of the service we provide, we settle for fees which represent a small fraction of the client’s project expenditures. If we save material or labour by good planning, innovation or by taking a well-calculated risk, we may save the client money, or merely generate additional profit for the constructor- but merely doing so attracts risk TO us while generating zero or near-zero benefit FOR us- aside from perhaps a good reference on the next job. Since somebody else (the lowest bidder!) is building it and we probably won’t be retained to do an adequate job of construction supervision, the tendency to over-design and to stick to the conventional becomes second nature and totally understandable.

Like I said in an earlier post, one of the things that used to make me very bitter about my job was the fact that I never saw a dime of the money that my hard work and intelligence saved for my company or my clients. I no longer have that complaint. Man, that’s a great feeling! And I don’t feel for a moment that my professional ethics or my fiduciary responsibility to my client are compromised. I certainly do not feel that I generate a poorer quality product for my clients than those who sell them only services.

 

[npcannon]

1st post here, I've been a member for a while and browsed for several years.

I think I’m more bitter that I started off with such promise, hope, enthusiasm, etc and now I sit in a little office all day pushing drawings around making red and green marks and if I’m lucky I get to go out to the field once a quarter. Right out of college I worked at the South Pole as an engineer, and it’s been downhill since then. My job is often an exact replica of office space complete with painful commute, several bosses, and the seemingly endless unchanging road linking today with retirement (30 more years, shoot me now). I’ve compared it to an infinitely long tunnel, ironically I often work with pipelines. I’ve gone as far as to graph my “distain of work vs. time” and the best I can figure, it’s y = |x sin(x)| the general trend is towards more distain, with periods where I am at little to no distain (I don’t hate every day more than the last). I’m not really bitter about engineering specifically, it’s hard to be too upset with the nice paychecks and robust job market, but I’m certainly not happy with the work, the environment, the direction etc. I’m glad to see that I’m not completely alone.

Random first post, but good thread, thanks. This forum saves me so much time I don’t even feel bad posting.
-N

 

[IRstuff]

Good Lord!! You're already that bad off at, what, year 5? You and the OP are both young enough to find something else to do, and the sooner you do that the better you'll feel.

Your apparent level of unhappiness is going to lead to kicking the dog and yelling at the kids and the missus, which is NOT the way you want to live your life.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[shadow401]

Thank you npcannon for your comment. Very funny.

 

[Bester2]

OK I am 5 years out of school and do not like what I do. I can see myself yelling at the wife, kicking the dog and depressing my kids if I don't find something else. So what are some of these mystical jobs??? I volunteer for every special project at my current job to see if I could like anything more. So far no real winners. I do like what I do now more than what I did before but this job has a time limit where it will no longer exist at my current employer. In fact what I am doing now will always be a temporary position no matter where I go. I thought about project management but I have been exposed to that lately and it is terrible. I like manufacturing a little but hated the fact that the people putting together the products would not follow the instructions and made changes on their own. I understand making changes to make something work but not telling anyone is not job security it is a stupid waste of the companies money (we get profit sharing so I really hate to see money being wasted). I thought maybe sales engineering would be a better place for me because I like traveling and meeting new people but getting into sales seems to be extremely difficult because the compensation is so high everyone wants to do it and the good old boy system is in full effect (especially down here in the Southwest).

So far my favorite position was where I was in charge of communicating to our outside vendors the requirement of a complex part we needed them to make using only 3D CAD data and drawings that were only used to check not fully define the assembly/part. This was great because it had everything I liked. I did a little CAD work, and drawing did not have to be perfect I only had to make sure that the drawing defined all dimensions that we needed checked. We shared 3D data and checked the actual parts/assemblies using CMM to model data. I traveled a little to the places where we were getting the parts built to verify jigs and first builds. In fact I think that is it. I want to do that again. OK how would I find something like that again?


SW 2007 SP 5.0

 

[SNORGY]

I just finished 263 hours of *overtime* over a period of six weeks to try and meet a deadline that was a result of a "bait and switch" (done consciously or not) in scope, which quadrupled relative to what was bid. The ensuing change order from us was approved, but the schedule wasn't extended. In one stretch, after six consecutive 18-hour per day working weekends, missing my wedding anniversary, and a bunch of other "small sacrifices", I worked until Sunday night 11:30, got up at 4:30 Monday morning, resumed work at 5:00 that morning, and didn't go home until 11:30 the following Tuesday morning. I made it...got it done...

Not so much as an email of thanks or even acknowledgement from the client or any of my superiors for the effort. Nothing. Not a phone call, not a pat on the back...nothing. In the last Strategic Planning Session, however, the MBAs who run the company again repeated ad nauseum how they are expecting more from their people and that people's commitment and dedication will be observed. Me, I don't know - unless they have installed hidden surveillance cameras or something - how they are going to observe anything. I just know that since January, I turned the lights on and made the coffee every morning for everyone before they arrived, and then washed the coffee pots and loaded the dishwasher and turned the lights out after they all left. Well, except during weekends on the floor where the loyal and committed and dedicated MBAs sit in Mahogany Row. The lights were never on there on Saturdays and Sundays.

Not that I am in any way bitter.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[knight185]

My brother's boss told him that no employee should expect a "Thank you" for doing a job well. This guy said a job is privilege and not a right, and the only thanks you are entitled to is a paycheck. I guess he has a point but it is also sad that giving a compliment is seen as a weak or soft thing to do. Getting a paycheck is good but that by itself does not provide good emotional health. A simple "Thank You" from a boss can go a long way.

I guess I have been fortunate. I work very hard at my job to achieve the desired results. Whatever I am doing is the right thing since I continue to get high performance ratings and got a salary increase because of it. I am a young engineer (27 years old) and the company tries to treat us well. It only makes sense. Someone has to run these plants when all of the older folks retire. A lot of pensions and retirement accounts are at stake.

 

[ScottyUK]

My brother's boss told him that no employee should expect a "Thank you" for doing a job well.

Few things could breed resentment faster than an attitude like that. Presumably it hasn't occurred to your brother's boss that if the employee follows a similar path of reasoning they will conclude that no employer should expect anything other than what they pay for.

Sounds like a company destined to go out of business, hardly the best result for employer or employee. Or maybe it is - do we need employers like that?


----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[knight185]

At that particular work location I think the company does get what they pay for...an unmotivated workforce.

It's just little things that make the difference. For example, my plants operate 24/7 and I am on call all the time. My boss will ask me if I can work a particular weekend. I know it basically means I have to work but by asking me if I am available instead of flat out ordering me to work, it at least gives the impression that he cares about my life outside of work. This guy does care about life outside of work. One time his skipped a late evening conference call to attend church. The plant manager was not too happy about it.

 

[moltenmetal]

I should not have to plead with someone to do their job- if it is their job- as a special favour to me. Not doing your job willingly and competently is most discourteous to your competent and motivated colleagues!

Working outside normal business hours might be part of your job description, and an implied part of your compensation. If it isn't, all a boss can do is ask, with no expectation of compliance. If the O/T is compensated, though, that polite "ask" should probably be understood as a command.

A "thank you" is elementary human courtesy. Sometimes busy people forget to be courteous. We've actually tried to make a "thank you" an official part of each major project. It not only makes the place more pleasant one to work in, it also makes cold, hard economic sense by increasing harmony and productivity.

I'm not satisfied with mere courtesy alone. My company gives me, and all my colleagues, a much more tangible "thank you" at the end of each fiscal year. That's worth more than any pat on the back from the management or certificate of appreciation in a handsome plastic frame- it demonstrates a REAL, tangible appreciation for our efforts.

 

[graybeach]

At my utility, we had a 4% pay cut three years ago, have not had raises since, and we have been told that there will be no raises for the forseeable future. Not only that, we have the most ridiculous cadre of "performance analysts" (we call them the Dilbert committee) constantly budding in to what we are doing.

Meanwhile the engineers here do a very good job keeping our aging infrastructure in good repair. One could get really pissed off thinking about this, but my boss said something that made all the difference during my last review. He said that management has no idea really what the engineers do, and they don't realize that the integrity and dedication of the individuals is what holds this place together. That statement greatly helped reduce my bitterness. But when the economy gets better there better be something more tangible or people will start leaving in droves.

 

[dgillette]

MikeHalloran - I can beat your $35 gift card!

One year it was a ham. Our Jewish vegetarian secretary got the same thing.

(Aside from that, it was a great job, with challenging, interesting projects and decent pay.)

DRG

 

[Japher]

I once moved across country for a job that turned out to be something quite different than what I ended up doing. Not only that, but when I brought up that my responsibilities were not inline with my job description or work contract I was told "if you don't like it you can always leave." So, I tried to make do. However, that attitude of "love it or leave it" was so persistant that I couldn't even like it, so I did leave. In the next 3 years I had 2 jobs and was laid off of both.

I now work for a young start up with potential and the normal amount of drama, but nothing so brutal as the "we don't care about you or how you feel" company. Am I bitter?

I'm bitter at my work history and how it reflects on me. I'm bitter that a crapy company lead to resume that makes me look like I lack dedication. I'm bitter that society craps on engineers, pays us crap, and then blames us when the sheit hits the fan.

Still, as an engineer I AM dedicated to my craft and I am persistant in my persuit of understanding, improving, and learning. This, you can't take away. So no, I'm not bitter about work. I'm bitter about the people that make my work difficuly, and I try to not be one of those persons to someone else.

 

[SNORGY]

Christmas bonus?

One year - one of the best years - we all got a jar of maple syrup.

A simple card would have sufficed.

Regards,

SNORGY.