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It appears that the USS Fitzgerald collision may have been an "Engineering Disaster"... 3

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JohnRBaker

JohnRBaker

Mechanical
Jun 1, 2006
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In the same way that the previously discussed Tesla 'autopilot' accident was seen here as an "Engineering Disaster", it's starting to look like the USS Fitzgerald collision with that container ship may have been one as well:

Freighter Was On Autopilot When It Hit U.S. Destroyer


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
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The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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A couple of items I saw on this:
"To help determine what happened, investigators will download radar data from the ship's Aegis weapons system, which records routine details on position, course, speed and any nearby ships or aircraft. Navigation and radar data will also be gathered from the cargo ship.

"Another factor being examined is the impact of the destruction of the Fitzgerald's communications gear on the ability of the crew to call back to shore to inform commanders they needed help.

"Preliminary analysis indicates the collision occurred where the ship's communication nodes are housed and the official said the crew had to resort to using satellite based cell phones to communicate both on board and back to shore."
 
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Not sure where everyone is reading, but this is the FIRST paragraph of SOLAS chapter 5 regulation 1, which:

1. Unless expressly provided otherwise, this chapter shall apply to all ships on all voyages, except: 1.1 warships

The rest of the chapter, including regulations 14 and 19 makes no reference to warships...

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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And now for something completely off-the-wall, a theory (as in "conspiracy theory") as to what might have caused the Fitzgerald collision; North Korea hacked the navigation controls of the container ship with the intention of ramming and sinking the American destroyer:


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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Not going to bother to read that, but we are told that container ships are lumbering beasts with poor control response, so unless the NKs secretly installed a larger rudder then it seems a fairly poor choice to use as a guided missile.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
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NK would have had to know it was going to cross paths with the warship, which would have been difficult with AIS. And NK would have needed the warship's entire crew to be lethargic and unable to process an imminent collision.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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I DID say that it was a "CONSPIRACY" theory ;-)

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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Doesn't seem to me like the lack of AIS coverage should have any bearing one way or another here.

Richard Feynman's Problem Solving Algorithm
1. Write down the problem.
2. Think very hard.
3. Write down the answer.
 
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From Reuters, "A U.S. warship struck by a container vessel in Japanese waters failed to respond to warning signals or take evasive action before a collision that killed seven of its crew, according to a report of the incident by the Philippine cargo ship's captain.

Multiple U.S. and Japanese investigations are under way into how the guided missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald and the much larger ACX Crystal container ship collided in clear weather south of Tokyo Bay in the early hours of June 17.

In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved, the cargo ship's captain said the ACX Crystal had signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald "suddenly" steamed on to a course to cross its path.

The container ship steered hard to starboard (right) to avoid the warship, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to a copy of Captain Ronald Advincula's report to Japanese ship owner Dainichi Investment Corporation that was seen by Reuters."

Dik
 
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At risk of reopening the debate about warships and AIS...

QNLZ_AIS_lbx0tx.jpg


A.
 
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SOLAS basically says that warships are exempt, but are encouraged to be compliant. Moreover, most warships that are ostensibly compliant might delay AIS information sufficiently to ensure that no tactical disadvantage is incurred.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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Military Ships would have to have an AIS transmitter with an ON/OFF switch.
The switch could be set to either ON or OFF, as circumstances or whims dictate.
Finding examples of Military Ships with their AIS Out either ON and OFF is expected.

Finding examples of AIS Out OFF over the Internet wouldn't be as straightforward.
It might require a newsworthy collision to make it apparent; as in this case.

 
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IRS:
"SOLAS basically says that warships are exempt, but are encouraged to be compliant. Moreover, most warships that are ostensibly compliant might delay AIS information sufficiently to ensure that no tactical disadvantage is incurred."

I could find no reference to this; can you provide a citation? or, is it perhaps optional at the discretion of the OOD?

Dik
 
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Thanks,

Added: I notice under MCA Guidance, the following: "Although naval vessels, auxiliaries and government service vessels are exempt, the Regulation encourages them to comply as closely as possible with the provisions of SOLAS V. It is UK policy, spelt out in a letter of understanding between the MOD and MCA, that UK naval auxiliary ships comply as closely as possible with the requirements of SOLAS. All other UK-flagged ships on Government service are required to comply fully with SOLAS."

Dik
 
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dik, I notice how you post quotes from sources that you imply are authoritative yet you never provide any actual links. Why is that?

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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Good observation JohnRBaker and I have my reasons (not an oversight, just unexplained):

Not authoritative... just informational... I generally do not consider news sources as authoritative, and only because my <Ctrl><C> and <Ctrl><V> only works for one item at a time...

Added: The above text copy&paste came from the link provided by IRS

Dik
 
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