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It appears that the USS Fitzgerald collision may have been an "Engineering Disaster"... 3

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JohnRBaker

JohnRBaker

Mechanical
Jun 1, 2006
35,555
In the same way that the previously discussed Tesla 'autopilot' accident was seen here as an "Engineering Disaster", it's starting to look like the USS Fitzgerald collision with that container ship may have been one as well:

Freighter Was On Autopilot When It Hit U.S. Destroyer


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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If somebody posts a quotation without a reference link and it bothers you, then copy the quotation (specifically up to 32 words that are the most unique section) and then paste the resultant string into Google (perhaps with added "quotes"). With luck, the source should magically appear, perhaps mixed in with a few other hopefully-related hits.

I agree that it's a minor annoyance to copy and paste the quote, and then have to go back to fetch the URL as another copy and paste operation. Given Google, it's not such a big sin to let those interested look it up for themselves. Besides, the most
useful web resources are often the least authoritative, and vice versa. So refs sometimes aren't as useful as they once were.

Edit: remove hard CR/LFs.
 
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IRS... no harm done... was easy to find. I should have let people on the forum know that when I post news articles... I only have moderate confidence that the articles are correct, but, part of the info I gather. If something is obviously screwy, I don't pass it on...

Dik
 
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dik said:
...when I post news articles... I only have moderate confidence that the articles are correct...
Click to expand...

Which is even more important that you post the link(s) so that the rest of us can make our own judgements.

By only including bits and pieces which you think are relevant, while at the same time claiming that there might have been less than reliable info in the original item, you are potentially skewing the conversation toward what in your opinion was relevant while leaving the rest of us to guess as to what the other stuff was saying. And yes, I know I can do a "highlight and search" operation but why should I have to? Whenever I personally mention anything from a source, I post the links. In fact, I generally don't even 'Cut & Paste' quotes from items, instead I often simply make some sort of comment based on my personal opinion or understanding of the subject matter, and then provide a link so that if anyone is interested, they can dig deeper, but at least I've made it easy for them and have not done anything to obscure what it was that I was basing my positions/views/comments on.

If you think that's being picky, well I'm sorry...

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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Not at all... I'll try to remember to post the articles...

Dik
 
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Put the url here. said:
I often paste the url on the "Who?" line in the quote routine.
Click to expand...
Works for me.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
 
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It's happened again...

U.S. Warship Collides With Merchant Vessel East Of Singapore

This is the second accident involving U.S. Navy destroyers in Asian waters in little more than two months.


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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One being Liberian flagged... I wonder if either has SOLAS on...

Dik
 
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At least this time the ship was struck on the PORT side near the stern. It sounds like the give way vessel did not quite give way enough.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
 
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the line in the original post that got my attention ... "The Fitzgerald is equipped with the AN/SPS-64 advanced military navigation radar, and also uses a commercial radar system to enhance the shipping traffic picture of ships in its vicinity." (ok, quoted in the 2nd post, attributed to the link in the first) but seriously, navy radar needs a commercial radar to detect nearby shipping ? Though I can see that maybe navy systems are less interested in collision alerts.

Having an important system like the AIS off (or unavailable, amounts to the same thing) means the watch is more important. And maybe they got fatigued/nonchalant ? But also I guess it is hard to see a small change in course that creates a glancing collision. But I'd've thought they could have determined that the distance to the other ship was closing (ranging binoculars ?).

But you remember the clip on Youtube (years back) about some US Navy ship taking on an Irish lighthouse ?

Question, if the AIS system is not functioning, how would they identify the other ship (to hail it) ?

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
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This one appears to have been hit much more broadsided than the previous one

ship_am0j9e.gif


TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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YOKOSUKA, Japan – The forward-deployed Areligh Burke guided-missile cruiser USS John S. McCain (DDG 56), aka ‘Big Bad John,’ passed all readiness requirements for a materiel assessment conducted by the Navy's Board of Inspection and Survey (INSURV), May 25, 2017. Link
 
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I can't see how anyone was even looking out the windows to have this occur,
nor was anyone looking at any radar. The McCain is a measly 500 feet long with
a 100,000 shaft horsepower and can exceed 30 knots, it's a nimble ship! It
should be proactively staying 1000 feet from any other shipping.

I'm starting to think they should be putting bridge video loggers in these one
point eight billion dollar machines.

Keith Cress
kcress -
 
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Even a $500 dash cam would be good.
Well, $500,000 by the time procurement gets it on board.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
 
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Wow!

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde:
“To collide with one ship may be regarded as a misfortune; to collide with two looks like carelessness.”

As EdStainless said in the third post in this thread - there is clearly an underlying management problem here.

 
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berkshire said:
At least this time the ship was struck on the PORT side near the stern. It sounds like the give way vessel did not quite give way enough.
B.E.
Click to expand...
Considering that the destroyer is not broadcasting its position and is designed to have as small of a radar signature as possible, is it reasonable to even consider faulting the commercial vessel?

I'd start to be more concerned that a foreign adversary has managed to hack into our ships' control/navigation systems and is somehow disabling or otherwise causing them to malfunction at inopportune times.

 
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Not withstanding Spartan5s remarks , the commercial vessel is still at fault under Colreg rule 15, first she was the give way vessel secondly she was in violation of rule 6 " Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid a collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions. Of course that does not let the McCain completely off the hook either , she runs afoul of rule 17 " Rule 17 has three stages and you must identify and assess each of them: Rule 17(a)(i): when you are the ‘stand-on vessel’, you must keep your course and speed. You must not do anything unexpected. Rule 17(a)(ii): ‘as soon as it becomes apparent’ that the give-way vessel is not taking appropriate action, then you may take your own action to avoid a collision. Rule 17(b): when a collision cannot be avoided by the give-way vessel alone, then you must take the best action you can to avoid colliding. Your action under Rule 17(b) must still be in time to avoid a collision so you must not leave it too late. "
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
 
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