Jerkholes at the office 14

[HVACctrl]

This has happened more than once and is happening one again- running into total jerks at the office. At my previous job, it was the boss. He was very disrespectful and crude. I couldn't deal with or even believe someone would be that way.

Now I am working for a controls contractor. There are two "pseudo-engineers" (no engineering degree or education, but in the role as "engineers") who, although they are not my bosses, are fairly well-anchored and influential in the company (small company). They are both pretty negative towards me. I am a mechanical engineering graduate and will be testing for my PE license in 3 weeks, although a license is not required in this position.

Just curious if others have expereinced total jerks in the office- those who, you know you can't smart off to because they can either fire you or get you fired.

How do you deal with it?

Am I possibly being too submissive to start off so that they sense this and take advantage of my good nature?

Thanks for any ideas.

Ed

 

[GregLocock]

"Second, I was under my desk one day reinstalling my computer (was double duty as the network administrator). He comes into my office, sees me on the floor, grabs one of my legs and drags me out into the hallway proclaiming to the whole office he’s landed a whale."

In this whole sad thread (which should be called When will I grow up?) at least that made me laugh.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[HVACctrl]

Greg,

Was that directed at me?

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I can see that the tone of my original post (calling them names, etc) may have sounded a little sophamoric.

But cheap shots like that and laughing at someone's misfortunate treatment isn't really very mature or constructive.

Yes, my post was childish. I've said it over and over agin. It was a mistake, I see now, to air my frustration in that manner.

But, are you suggesting that I am acting immature for taking offense to the unsolicited verbal attacks? Am I being immature for not letting it role off my back? I take my career seriously and I have a difficult time understanding or dealing with ill-intended attempts to undermine my success and self-confidence from two arrogant, cinical, sef-serving indiciduals who treat newcomers who aren't like themselves poorly.

If that is an indication of immaturity, then I guess I just don't get it. I'm willing to admit that.

What do you consider the instigators?

I don't get it.

Ed

 

[jmw]

There have been a couple of occassions when I've been very surprised at the tone of the responses to my posts (And to some others, so much so i wonder what they have read that i didn't) but that's life. We are all volutarily here so we can take it or leave it.

Some days we catch our colleagues here before they've had their coffee, I've done that a few times, and some days we just don't see the world from the same perspective and some days we are wrong and others will tell us so; if enough people tell me I'm wrong I'll give it some thought, but it doesn't mean I'll agree.
Fair enough.

Not so easy with our jobs.
Unfortunately, there are some very strange people we have to work with or for.

In all my jobs I found at least one "Jerkoff", and sometimes more.
If I changed jobs everytime, I'd probably have changed jobs year after year.
Did I find some way to deal with these people?
No.
I just shaped my work around them.

They don't learn, they don't change, nobody changes them and most often they are the ones who survive layoffs and redundancies; they must have some survival gene I don't know about.
Some of them became managers (or were that way inclined when I encountered them).

At my first job fresh from college, I had a less qualified colleague, but capable and severely ambitious, and not above some very unprofessional behaviour. (actually, he was far more honest in his approach than some I met subsequently).
As we both progressed it was management's sense of humour to give us adjacent desks.
We never came to blows, we both got our work done. I often wondered if it was just me?
When I left that job he had already gone. We both went for the right reasons, though in his case his gift of the gab landed him a partnership with an entrepeneurial type equally as aggressive, ambitious, self-opinionated and abrasive - it didn't last long and he now works for himself and pretty successfully.
Ironically, once we no longer worked for the same company we began to get on quite well and of course, it was after we both left I discovered that I hadn't been imagining what a jerk he was, everyone else had been quite happy that I was his target and not them.

I could describe many others but why bother, a jerkoff is a jerkoff however you describe him/her. Some are a nuisance and some are actively trying to destroy your career. Go figure.

However, I never worked with anyone so extreme I just had to get out and I am never surprised that not everyone loves me.
It is rare to get the satisfaction of seeing them meet an appropriate doom (congratulations to THEReifleman for that).

Just don't take it personally, don't let it wreck your day. If you dont respond, as often as not they don't get any satsifaction and you can survive just fine.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

"Jerkholes (I assume a cross between jerk-offs & @$$holes?) aren't limited to offices. They can be found in all walks of life, and often turn up where you least expect them.


Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091

 

[IRstuff]

"No, I don't at all feel or act superior. In fact, I show nothing but respect for their experience and knowledge"

Based on what? People are not as dumb as we think. Behavior cues are numerous. That's how professional poker players make their money, by obvserving otherwise insignificant behavioral traits.

Additionally, people are quite adept at seeing what you DON'T do. Both overt behavior AND unperformed behavior are clues to your attitude.

You say you "show nothing but respect," but you never say that YOU "respect them and their experience."

There are plenty of bigots who don't think they're bigots, because they're always polite to their inferiors.

TTFN

 

[HVACctrl]

IR,
I'll take thst into consideration. I'll scrutinize myself a little more closely.

Perhaps my not going out of my way to talk to them lately because of their attitudes has added fuel to the fire as they may have construed that as being snobish.

Maybe my forgoing lunch with them (on the rarfe occaision that we are together during the day) because I am choosing to use that time to study for my PE test coming up has been misinterpreted as being uppity. I don't know.

But I'll look at these things.

Two more facts:
1) They take issue with people with and without college educations
2) My best boss ever had no degree in engineering, was our director of engineering and I never felt nor did I show any level of superiority towards him
3) A different boss I had who had an identical position to these guys (who, again, are not my bosses) really knew how to bring newcomers up and create an environment of teamwork. They have no idea.

I do know that they both suffered the first half of their careers working for an extremely cut-throat local branch office of a worldwide conglomerate. There people were cut like grass, layoffs came if a project didn't make the percentage, firings came on a call for a 10% reduction even if your department was making all the money, but another department was pulling down the ship.

Maybe some of this has carried over to a unique survival rsponse- fight or flight?

Ed

 

[trialsboy]

It boils down to the fact that you and them are two completely different personalties. From my own experiences it doesn't really work, they have a different outlook to you and vice versa.

Me and my university housemate had problems very similar to what you have described and we tried to resolve issues but we parted ways and that was that.

Positive point to take, is that we both found people that did have the same types of personality- so don't lose heart.

 

[bradpa77]

Your situation blows. Sorry to hear about it. People can, in fact, be jerks no matter where you go. Hang in there. Just remember these facts:

1.) You can't control how anyone treats you
2.) The only thing in your control is how you react to other people's attitudes, judgements, comments, etc.

You will never completely get rid of jerks in the workplace. They are everywhere. So consider these guys a good way to practice how to deal with them. The best way to deal with problem people is to change YOUR attitude and approach to them. It's tough to do and it will sometimes require you to swallow your pride and change for their sakes, but its the only thing you can control in the situation.

I once listened to some tapes that really helped me get along with all different types of people. It's called "How to deal with Difficult People" by Brinkman and Kirschner. The guys on the tapes are so happy and upbeat it made me want to bang my head on the wall, but there is some really good methods in there that have helped me tremendously.

Good luck.

 

[ziggi]

It really annoys me that we have to be nice and accomodating to dillholes at work and in life. While I recognise that some people just seem to attract animosity via their attitudes, other people genuinely want to do well and are set upon by the less able.

I do not believe in accomodating the whims of the envious or inept, people who shout discrimination at the first sign that someone else is being treated better, or has had an easier life etc etc really annoy me.
It's been my experience that the person who is most loudly against the stink is the one whom reeks of it.

In the case of subordinates an occasional strong response, solves the problem at hand and places fear into the hearts of all the others (refer to my earlier post in this thread).
Unfortunately not all people can get away with such reprisals, although I'll bet most would love the chance.

Usually the dillhole has the ear of your superior, hence his attitude. In this case, covertly undermining his position works, ignoring the problem just causes it to get worse since the reason the person does these things is to get attention or to annoy you.
What's that you say? You're worried that you'll get fired for trying to undermine the dillhole???
What does it matter?
If you don't undermine him, he'll eventually force you to leave anyway.

Maybe I'm just weird, but it's my belief that the real world is much like the animal kingdom, a lion will only take so much nonsense from another lion before he solves his problem with a quick sharp growl/snarl/bite, then all is well again, until the next tosser tries his luck with the alpha.

 

[HVACctrl]

bradpa77,
Thank you for the info on the tapes. I will certainly look into them. This is on the lines of what I was looking for.

ziggi,
Good points. They do have the owners' ears. But I suspect the owners know how they are. I do try to accomodate them to a point without playing the part of the pushover. Its a pencil-thin fine line. I agree that if I get fired for lashing out, it should be no big loss. However, I want that time to come when I am ready for it. If I get to a point that I have something else lined up OR that being unemployed for an extended period is OK, but I still want to give this place a chance, I could go that route. THEN if I get shown the door for returning the favor to these two, it won't matter.

For now, I will think of some of the replies I have gotten so far and figure out the best political and professional ways to deal with the situation. IF that doesn't work, I'll get my ducks in a row and then set them straight.

Thanks y'all,

Ed

 

[HgTX]

In thread732-123729 I had some potentially useful reading material for this situation.

Hg


Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[Xofa]

I have also worked with "pseudo-engineers" (people who are placing in engineering positions that do not have an analytical thought process). They are generally difficult to deal with as they tend to be defensive, critical, and political more often than analytical. My other observation is that they tend to enjoy solving familair problems over and over. Read "they are EXPERTS" but rarely share the process knowledge with anyone else.

My advice would be as others have recommended let your work speak for you, stay focused on what you need to do in order to succeed, and keep excellent records (CYA).

Also may also wish to remember this little bit of wisdom I saw on a church sign "THAT WHICH ANGERS YOU CONTROLS YOU"
If you find your interaction with them is effecting your homelife or your health find out from your insurance provider if you are covered for mental health services. A good therapist will be able help you identify what buttons they are pushing to get you EXCITED.

I would offer one other observation, if the company that you work for starts hiring primarily "pseudo-engineers" you may want to consider a new job. Companies that employ large numbers of "EXPERTS" & have stagnant processes tend to get beaten by companies that employ innovators.

I wish you luck with this difficult situation.

-John

 

[HVACctrl]

Thanks John,
I have learned a lot from the replies.

As for the innovation, it doesn't seem to be a high priority here. As I get more accepted and I see areas in need of improvement, I will definitely do my best to innitiate these things- without stepping on toes if possible.

Your first statement "They are generally difficult to deal with as they tend to be defensive, critical, and political more often than analytical" hit the nail on the head. I didn't want to stereotype and classify them like this, but it seems more and more true.

One of the guys is a little easier to deal with, particularly since I went and had a few beers with him after work last Friday. The other one seems as though he will always be the same.

I will try to think of the various advice given here and just do my best to make this a positive, productive work environment for everyone.

Thanks again,

Ed