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Kids trapped in a cave 25

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3DDave

Aerospace
May 23, 2013
10,685
Not a result of engineering, but one that might benefit from it.

The kids soccer team is trapped in a cave. From the graphic on the news it seems there are several pools that have sealed off the exit path. The children are supposed to be unable to swim, though I don't know that that is a special limitation. More concerning is that using scuba equipment might be too complicated for them; not only are they not familiar with it, the water they will move through is so murky that they would essentially be blind, deaf, and unable to communicate so that even guides would be unable to help them escape.

There is no immediate problem for them; they are now supplied with food and water and medical care. They have been without food for a week and will take a while to recover from that.

However, there is no known time at which the water will recede from the cave. I expect that there is insufficient pumping capacity to offset the rate at which it can be replenished. On the news they estimated weeks to months before the cave might dry enough.

Since they are in the cave, the passage was certainly large enough to get in and so there should still be enough room to get out. In particular full-sized adults have made the journey.

A thought occurs to me that it should be possible to pull corrugated tubes through each of the pools and then pump those out. If the ends are above water, there should be no replenishment beyond minor leaks for the pumps to offset. Using these the children should be able to crawl out, and will have light and audible communications to guide them.

The water is apparently only 16 feet deep at most, so the pressure can't exceed 8 psi. Anchorage will be required to keep it from shortening axially, but that should be a few hundred pounds to be useful.

I would estimate that a 24 inch diameter would be enough. I'm thinking of construction as is used for ventilating manholes, possibly with stronger wire.

If the tube obstructs the path for the adults, then they can wait the few days while the tubes are placed, the children escape, and then the tubes can be retrieved. If they are anchored against the cave roof by buoyant forces, they can be flooded again and then pulled back out.


Does this seem like a feasible way out?
 
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Very interesting, not how I had envisioned it at all. First I'd heard of other divers being hospitalized too.

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
 
A lot of good thinking and a lot of team work went into that effort.
A job well done.
A moment of reflection for the seal who didn't make it. Sad.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
 
Elon Musk is a horrible narcissist. Levies unsubstantiated pedophilia accusation against the lead explorer who was responsible for all of the extensive mapping that was insturmental in the success of the operation. Because said individual rightfully called the submarine Musk dropped off there a PR stunt.

 
I wonder if Musk will now pilot his sub the path just to prove it could work. recording trip time to see if it would have been better
 
Haven't seen pictures of this so-called "mini sub", but Musk has obviously never been in a cave where the crevices are barely big enough to squeeze through. Someone should tell him that Fantastic Voyage is fiction, not real.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
 
ornerynorsk - your default signature is ironic in comparison with your criticism of Musk.
 
I dont understand Elon Musks angle here. It was obvious his initial effort may have been PR and I think thats fine. But when someone basically comes to the conclusion that yeah it wont work; he goes ballistic and ruins any PR he may have garnered.
 
"he goes ballistic and ruins any PR he may have garnered."

That's typically a symptom of Dunning-Kruger and gross immaturity. I just can't think of any other public figure that's demonstrated their gross immaturity on social media.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
Really, I can think of a orange public figure that regularly demonstrates gross immaturity on social media. Or was that meant to be ironic?

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
 
3DDave, LOL. He's just not very comfortable to have had one of the ideas that was wrong. Pretty easy to pass or fail that one before the equipment ever gets loaded on the plane based on smallest constriction.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
 
ornerynorsk - you do know that Musk was reacting to being told to injure himself, and not just being told it would not work?

Edit: There's a huge list of things people told Musk he could not -ever- accomplish, and yet he managed those OK.
 
The exhortation was part and parcel to the criticism that the sub idea was a dog. My opinion is that it came from Musk trying to make a publicity stunt out of this.


Had he done it quietly and behind the scenes, he could still have taken credit after it succeeded. Clearly, though, his self aggrandization and promotion got in the way of doing something good.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
Sounds like I may have missed something in the articles.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
 
Unsworth told Musk to shove his mini-sub up his arse.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
Yeah, that would be enough to set most people off :>)

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
 
The guy is an accomplished cave driver and a Brit. Too sensitive if you consider that comment out of order. I shudder to think what an Aussie would have told Musk to do with his toy sub.
 
Under all those millions, the need to strike back at any slight on social media must be driven by a fragile ego.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
 
Even if his sub was usable it was too late. The rescue started shortly after he delivered it. They already had an extensive and detailed plan in place that, with big risks, they believed would work. I can't see them shelving it to evaluate Musk's idea, even if they thought it was reasonable.
 
His whole trip was nothing more than a publicity stunt and I fully expect his site tour did nothing more than disrupt the people doing the actual rescue work. And he got called on it. He should have been told to shove his plans to visit us his ass. What else should he have expected to happen?

He's a childish, egotistical narcissist who can give speeches that sweet talk people into believing his dreams so they give up their time, intelligence and money towards them. If he couldn't talk so many into following his dreams like a cult leader convinces followers to drink the cool-aid, then his ventures wouldn't manage to miss so many deadlines and yet still get more investment and more support each time a deadline is missed.
 
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