Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05 111

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04


SF Charlie
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[Santos81]

Sorry about the TikTok "Play" button.

Perhaps it’s easier to use the original video without the edits added for TikTok?

https://youtu.be/ngyKmBjIZig

The background commentary is interesting. Vehicle and building alarms are sounding but it’s extremely difficult to make out audibly.

 

[Spartan5]

I wish someone could edit this video and just show the garage opening. Remove all the rest and just play the video with all of the motion removed.

This isn’t perfect. But it’s an improvement maybe.

 

[MaudSTL]

12 Jul 21 03:09
Do we know where all of these people were parking? It would discredit my theory. Which is important. If stuff was occurring in the building, it was happening around 12:30. ...
Where exactly do the parking spots line up with the apartments?

Sorry...I haven't yet found any info on parking space assignments.

 

[dik]

Some stainless is susceptible to chloride attack... have to check with a materials dude...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[AutisticBez]

BlakeStr,

Here is the thing, this area is a warm climate area? See, I don't know anyone who would evacuate a family out of an apartment just because the electricity wasn't on. I know a family who live in a real massive house in a cold area in the hills of NE Melbourne, and you know, tree's falling on power lines and nobody can get cars in and out of the area due to closed roads, and they had insurance which enabled them to end up in a hotel. But, I'm guessing this family in this tower hasn't got a hope of claiming insurance for the hotel stay.

It seems a little weird. Oh honey, the powers out again, better go stay in that cheap hotel again. I mean, did the guy even talk to security? Did he make a complaint about the power? Is it weird that he has no power? Come on, really? He's got the worlds most lottery ticket excuse for not being inside a building that has killed 150 people right?

This couple in the elevator right? I mean, they probably had tickets booked to return somewhere? They might not have wanted to stay in town and give an eyewitness account of the incident? I mean, did they have a vehicle? Where is the vehicle? Is it a rental? I dunno about anyone here, but if I slammed a rental vehicle into a buildings column and the entire thing was starting to rain white cement and broken rain water from the pipes, I bet you won't find me thinking twice about trying to get an early flight out of there right?

Seems the people in the garage have literally nothing to say about a falling pool deck and potential damaged column. I'd probably notice a column sitting on it's side 40 foot away from the ramp on the left. I don't think you could miss the thing. So many details and so little eyewitness accounts.

You know, then there is the other side of this, the condo owners association has all the money right? The last thing I'd want to report is someone crashing their car into a building column. I'd want all the blame sitting on the condo board. That's going to be the thing that gets the lawsuits settled in a flash. Driver hitting column equals no massive pay outs.

 

[Retiredat46]

If you look closely at the video taken from the south during the demolition of the standing portion of the building you'll see an AC unit flying over what looks like a dumpster.

You can see the condensation cloud formed by the gas spewing from the broken freon lines as the unit tumbles in its flight to the southwest out of view of the camera.

This flying compressor should give us an idea of the amount of force required to break the gas lines. I think it's very unlikely a unit falling of a stand as the penthouse roof slab collapsed would experience enough force to break the freon lines. The dangling units shows they're pretty strong, but being launched will break them.

 

[bones206]

As for the roof collapse/falling theories. Why didn't the presumably motion activated camera recording start sooner and possibly catch some of the roof falling? If the roof failed and caused the pool deck damage in that tiktok video then that camera should have been triggered by that failure and been recording long before the building started to collapse.

I suspect the camera has a sensitivity setting, as many motion activated cameras do. In the video you can see foliage swaying in the wind within a foot or two of the camera. You would have to have the sensitivity turned down to a minimum to avoid it being constantly triggered by that foliage movement. Thus it probably took the motion of a full building collapse to rouse it.

 

[Js5180]

Not sure if anyone noticed this, but slowing down the video, I noticed that a light in an x10 room was actually turned on during the collapse:

I've also noticed that some of the lights appear to go out in synch with the blue flashes going out, but not necessarily the ones directly horizontal to them. Someone mentioned three phases. Are different floors on different phases? Would this mean that appliances like stoves and dryers are 208v, instead of 240v? Would this also mean that every third floor is the same phase, or is that unpredictable?

(EDIT: added arrow)

 

[jbourne8]

As far as I know, the original video is the tiktok video. It's only 1.59MB on the tiktok site itself though, so it isn't a lot to start with really.. this is a tiny video. Anyways, I went through and stabilized it as best as I could, and cropped it down. This is the full video, but it blurs out whenever she moves the camera too fast and there's not much that can be done to fix that. I didn't do any sharpening, lightening, etc, because that tends to just degrade videos. Here's my stab at it -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWlbPxbecNI

Some interesting things I noticed.. there is a flashing light on the left wall, so clearly the fire alarm did go off. It looks like the reflection of a strobe light to me. Also, I think on the bottom part of that broken column it looks yellow and changes color in a few frames.. I'm pretty sure we're seeing the bottom of column 28/M12.1 there and it isn't attached to that horizontal broken slab/column/beam.

 

[jbourne8]

This frame is sort of interesting too, I'm pretty sure we're looking into the very back of the garage inbetween those last two pieces of the gate grates on the right. Seems like it's probably either the bottom of a wall or a shadow under a car, but it doesn't seem to have any rubble or be part of the collapse yet.. which matches up well with the lighting too. I applied a filter to this pic so it's a bit easier to see.

 

[MaudSTL]

CTS Collapse Witness Swimlane v 2

Includes updates to the Nico Vazquez/Gimena Accardi details per the videos cited by emtv. They were staying in 308, they parked in the garage "to the left" of 308, they heard a loud cracking sound (previous translations have called this a creaking sound) a few seconds before they got on the elevator, when they exited the elevator in the lobby, they saw dust and smoke and "sunken cars." They ran from the lobby with a few other people, and then the building collapsed.

NOTE: Other than Adriana Sarmiento, none of the witness interviews I have so far found mention seeing any garage damage.

 

[jbourne8]

Why are we still stalking the victims of the collapse over this silly mystery ghost car theory? There is nothing that backs it up at all.. it's not even a believable theory. I think where people were parking is completely irrelevant, and it wouldn't prove anything even if all three were parked right next to spots 27 and 28.

Personally I hope the parking space info doesn't get out, as this is only going to encourage people to harass them. I'm sorry, but you guys aren't going to catch someone online that the cops have somehow missed. This might be a better discussion for reddit, not an engineering forum.

 

[MaudSTL]

I think where people were parking is completely irrelevant, and it wouldn't prove anything even if all three were parked right next to spots 27 and 28.

The swim lane shows that that the Zions, Vazquez/Accardi, and possibly also Sara Nir parked in the garage near the time it failed, and did not mention seeing any indication of an accident or damage. The only witness who reported damage in the garage is Adriana Sarmiento, who shot the video of the rubble.

 

[jbourne8]

I don't know about you, but most people don't inspect their parking garage for damage when they get home after midnight.

 

[bones206]

when they exited the elevator in the lobby, they saw dust and smoke and "sunken cars."

If that account is true, it would indicate a larger area of initial collapse of the plaza slab, to include the area where cars are parked. As opposed to a more localized collapse in the vicinity of the planters/column M11.1.

Do you guys agree with that line of thinking?

 

[MaudSTL]

…most people don't inspect their parking garage for damage when they get home after midnight.

If you drive right past a fresh pile of broken concrete in your garage, and then the building falls down, you might think to bring it up.

 

[MaudSTL]

If that account is true, it would indicate a larger area of initial collapse of the plaza slab, to include the area where cars are parked.

Both Sara Nir and Nico Vazquez said that they saw cars. Sara said they were sticking up, and Nico said they were “sunken,” although this may be a bad translation…maybe somebody could check that…the links are in emtv’s post above and in the swim lane.

Anyhow, two witnesses saw cars, so I was thinking that implied they were seeing the surface parking lot had collapsed.

 

[jbourne8]

bones206, Yea.. that makes sense. I was surprised to hear that too.. but I can't seem to find that in any interviews. Is there a link to the audio/video somewhere? In this one he mentions they heard a loud noise in the garage, but no cars -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBTnPiI3gLo

MaudSTL, I think this progressed a lot quicker than you think. It sounds like the entire collapse starting with that pile of rubble in the garage took about 3-5 minutes total. It sounds like they were in the elevator at the start of that, so they probably saw nothing. They couldn't have driven past the rubble, as it would have been in their way on the way to the elevators.

 

[MaudSTL]

They couldn't have driven past the rubble, as it would have been in their way on the way to the elevators.

Exactly my point. Vazquez didn’t mention any collapsed columns, and he couldn’t have driven to his parking space if the rubble Sarmiento videoed had already blocked the entrance ramp. Based on his description, which I hope someone with good Spanish will translate, the garage collapse on the ramp happened behind Vazquez/Accardi, as they were about to get into the elevator. But when they exited the elevator into the lobby, he talks about seeing smoke, dust, and “sunken cars,” and hearing auto alarms before they ran out of the building. He says it all happened within a few minutes.

 

[jbourne8]

Actually.. after looking at this tiktok video a bit more, I don't think that is the strobe of the fire alarm light on that left wall. The lights are only on the outside of the building and stretch all the way to the sidewalk. It looks like a car alarm was going off, and it's their back lights that are blinking. Seems very strange that a car alarm picked this up parked so far away though. Maybe just from the boom of the M11.1 column collapsing? Although even that seems odd through so much concrete..

The Argentina group actually said they went up to the 2nd floor in some news report, before the elevator was recalled to the lobby.. so there's a bit more time I think between the events too btw.