Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10 79

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09


SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[Illustr8r]

Miami herald article about missing records-mirror

No way, records are missing from the town of surfside? Related to this spectacular failure? And Ross prieto is implicated?

Fishy.

 

[SFCharlie]

Please note the presence and absence of concrete (railings?) on the top few floors.

 

[Nukeman948]

@Js5180 if the two flashes are indeed the result of the conduits being cut in the corridor ceilings of 9 and 11

If electrics are in odd floors and that's what we think the blue light in x10 stack is then making those on floors 9 and 11 goes with the 'missing 13th floor' interpretation (see my floor correlation pic higher up the thread).

Were these flashes before or after the conduits got bent downwards by around 10 ft.? Were the flashes at the end of the conduits or at the meter bases? Where exactly did each phase wire fail?
As I've said before, you will never be able to prove anything to me by trying to interpret the flashes on that fuzzy video.

 

[Demented]

Please note the presence and absence of concrete (railings?) on the top few floors.

702, 903, 1203, 905, 1007, 1108, 212, 312, 612, 812, 1012 all had balcony railings removed and replaced in 2009.
Though I'd recon lost pixles.


To those in the previous thread with questions over the fire control panel, it was not original. Was due to be replaced but they had this.

https://www.securityandfire.honeywe...ategories/control-panel/onyx-series/nfs2-3030

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[SFCharlie]

I have been at work on a prototype of a new PowerPoint presentation. I removed all the "duplicate frames" (frames with no light, leaf, or collapse movement). Around frame 20, I noticed I could see the top floors. I marked them in red and then backed up to the previous frame and aligned the red with the portions that remained visible. I was able to do this almost to the start of the frames.

(if you have PowerPoint, I have the timings setup for a "show")

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[SFCharlie]

...all had balcony railings removed and replaced in 2009.

Do we know if they were replaced with wrought iron or concrete?

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[Demented]

Powdercoated Aluminum.
Edit: May have been painted. Aluminum either way.

They were all due to get pulled out this year, posts trimmed and baseplates welded on for them to install with tapcons rather than being in 3" diameter cored holes 3-5" deep.

 

[SFCharlie]

Powdercoated Aluminum.

So these were not the railings for the 12th and 13th floor PHs? Right?


SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[Demented]

No concrete railings. 2nd floor to PH contained the aame design railings. Roof and PH roof contained the parapet wall.
Edit: One unit at the top had an extension of the roof that was blocked off. I guess this would be a "railing". Another as built being different than as drawn.

 

[SFCharlie]

I guess this would be a "railing"

Ah! Now the photos make sense to me.
Thanks

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[zebraso]

I marked them in red

Are you saying your top red line is not actually in line with what may be seen as the far (north) PH corridor parapet? And what is immediately below is not the roof surface hinged down?

 

[LionelHutz]

For those looking for grassy knolls in blurry videos...

This is how the building would have looked from the camera's precise perspective, when intact.

That appears wrong. You're missing a section of 12 floor roof parapet.

 

[MaudSTL]

To those in the previous thread with questions over the fire control panel, it was not original. Was due to be replaced but they had this.

https://www.securityandfire.honeywell.com/notifier...

Nicolas Vazquez and his wife Gimena Accardi were in the elevator when the deck collapsed, having just parked in the garage. In his WhatsApp audio, Vazquez says that the elevator from the garage stopped at the lobby as usual. In other words, he is saying that the normal experience coming from the garage included the elevator stopping at the lobby.

What would be the purpose of programming the Honeywell to do that?

 

[nessman]

I don't know if the fire alarm system is the original one from 1980, but for the original one, a manual pull station, smoke detector, or sprinkler flow switch will transmit a tone alarm for that floor only. After a time delay of 0-10 minutes, if not reset, a general alarm will alert all floors.

That stuff is designed to last for decades. We still have stuff from the 1980's where I work.

If your nickname here implies what you do for a living, you know what I'm talking about!

 

[MaudSTL]

There were seven minutes between the 1:15 deck collapse and the 1:22 building collapse. If they had the system set to ten minutes, that would explain why the people in the part of the building that stood could hear the alarm after the building collapse.

 

[Debirlfan]

Looking at the security guard's (admittedly 2nd hand) story on the go fund me page for her, there's some things I question.

When the power went out, the front doors locked. Surely this would be a safety violation? Maybe the doors weren't actually locked, but when the other side of the building collapsed, it jammed the doors?

At any event, it appears the family from 111 (and likely the couple that had come up in the elevator, perhaps others?) escaped before the doors were inoperable.

The guard was helping people escape from the basement. It's unclear how she got there, being as how there's no access to the stairs from the lobby?

 

[Nukeman948]

If your nickname here implies what you do for a living, you know what I'm talking about!

You wouldn't believe the amount of pneumatic controls still in use where I've been. It's like a trip to the '60s.

 

[MaudSTL]

At any event, it appears the family from 111 (and likely the couple that had come up in the elevator, perhaps others?) escaped before the doors were inoperable.

Yes, apparently others escaped through the lobby doors along with the Nirs and Vazquezes. We don’t have any of their identities but, if you look at the NYT’s fatalities/unit graphic, it seems evident that the others who escaped were from the side that didn’t fall, as were Vazquez and Accardi (306.)

 

[nessman]

You wouldn't believe the amount of pneumatic controls still in use where I've been. It's like a trip to the '60s.

Still in use where I am today! But... given the plant is nearly 50 years old (and talk about steel reinforced concrete...), it still runs very well today.