Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12 60

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11

SF Charlie
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[SFCharlie]

Are all of these ACI documents being circulated in their entirety here not copy written material?

My very first post was a link the the ACI's own site.
I did provide a link to the '95 document that was already publicly visible and searchable on the web.
I also posted a link to Amazon's offers where one could purchase used editions. This is common in reviews of copyrighted material.
I believe my other posts have been links or excerpts.

SF Charlie
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[AusG]

rebar

I just looked at the column schedule, found a published table of x-sectional areas of standard rebar, and did the arithmetic. It stands to reason splices, beam and slab attachments will all increase crowding. One of the youtube analyses of the building raised this, and it was discussed here a few threads ago by people with much more knowledge than me. If you are keen you should look back some.

 

[moon161]

I think it would qualify as fair use.

https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html

 

[Vance Wiley]

There certainly should be dowels from the pile cap or column below and the remains of a column caught below most of the debris from the slabs above.

 

[Vance Wiley]

Excessive reinforcing at splices inhibits good concrete in that region, possibly leaving rock pockets and poorly consolidated/compacted concrete.
Do not know about the beam to column joints or beam to beam joints. That is typically easier to use a vibrator and improve the density of concrete there.
Splices in the columns are at the top of the pile caps, and top of each floor slab. Details for this are on sheet S-3 (pile caps) and S-11, columns.
EDIT ADD:
Subsequent posts address rebar crowding - I would add that it has been suggested here that 3% to 3.5% is a practical limit. I agree, and suggest the extra concrete be used to provide more cover for the reinforcing, thereby also providing enhanced protection from corrosion, particularly important in coastal environments.

 

[MaudSTL]

A structural engineer in Broward doesn’t want to update the current code at this time.

Gatekeeper of Broward’s building code skeptical that climate change affects buildings

 

[Spartan5]

I think it would qualify as fair use.

https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html

I get fair use. No doubt I push the boundaries of it too in my postings on the internet.

But per the information you shared. I don’t think that posting/sharing or hosting (in the case of files uploaded to engineering.com’s servers)whole documents constitutes fair use.

Two of the factors considered in evaluating fair use:

Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole: Under this factor, courts look at both the quantity and quality of the copyrighted material that was used. If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found; if the use employs only a small amount of copyrighted material, fair use is more likely. That said, some courts have found use of an entire work to be fair under certain circumstances. And in other contexts, using even a small amount of a copyrighted work was determined not to be fair because the selection was an important part—or the “heart”—of the work.

In this case, complete works of different ACI standards are being distributed. In some cases, enhanced even to make it searchable and eliminate annoying artifacts left over from the stealing process.

Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work: Here, courts review whether, and to what extent, the unlicensed use harms the existing or future market for the copyright owner’s original work. In assessing this factor, courts consider whether the use is hurting the current market for the original work (for example, by displacing sales of the original) and/or whether the use could cause substantial harm if it were to become widespread.

It would seem this would certainly apply to the current code. Maybe less so to the older versions. Though, if ACI still sells them (or sells a higher quality (e.g. searchable version), it seems apparent it’s harming the market value.

Otherwise it would seem there would be entire libraries of these and other documents (like ASTM specs) just existing out there in the public domain.

I also don’t think that “I’m just sharing something that someone else stole” is a defense that a Professional Engineer should use. But maybe that’s just me.

Maybe the ACI documents are intended to be free. In which case I’m out in left field. But I always thought that charging for these standards was the means of recouping some of the cost for developing them.

 

[SFCharlie]

A structural engineer in Broward doesn’t want to update the current code at this time.

"The official, Dan Lavrich, said there’s no evidence to support changes – no proof that poor maintenance played a role in the tower’s collapse, no data showing climate change affects a building’s structural integrity, and no justification for requiring earlier safety inspections."
.
.
.
"If Broward ends up alone in seeking changes to the safety inspection program, it will be up to Lavrich’s 13-member Board of Rules and Appeals to vote to recommend it to the Florida Building Commission."

Nop no flooding here:
Thursday Night's Rain Caused Street Flooding On Miami Beach
Aug 13, 2021
nor here:
Miami Beach areas already flooded as Fred approaches Florida
Aug 13, 2021

SF Charlie
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[AusG]

I can think of several things a diligent county could do right now, so I don't buy "nothing to be done", but I'm not sure what specific climate or sea level clauses should be entered right now in a building code as a result of CTS. Sea level rise is a foreseeable hazard for shorefront property generally so it should be mentioned. Is it not already?

 

[SFCharlie]

I have deleted the two of my posts I found contained whole documents.
I do maintain that:
1. Posting a link to their site with instruction to find their publications helps them.
2. Exposing engineers to the existence and relevance of their codes helps them.
3. A link to "stolen" ACI-318 is no different than finding that link in a google search.
4. The "clean-ups" were put thru Adobe OCR which corrupted the formulas, the heart of the work.

So go buy a copy

ACI Standard Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-63)by ACI Committee 318
$120.69

Hardcover · Used, Good
Only 1 left in stock - order soon.
Shipped from: Friends of Jefferson Public Library


SF Charlie
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[Spartan5]

I have deleted the two of my posts I found contained whole documents.
I do maintain that:
1. Posting a link to their site with instruction to find their publications helps them.
2. Exposing engineers to the existence and relevance of their codes helps them.
3. A link to "stolen" ACI-318 is no different than finding that link in a google search.
4. The "clean-ups" were put thru Adobe OCR which corrupted the formulas, the heart of the work.

Number 3 was the issue. Like I said, I don’t think posting links that circumvent the copyright of the standard, or even the instructions on how to find them for free, is very ethical. But that’s my opinion. Seems straightforward to me though.

The ACI sells a thumb drive with every version and supplementary documentation from 1908 to 2005 (fully searchable) for $200 here:

https://www.concrete.org/store/prod...SB&Format=USB&Language=English&Units=US_Units

Including:

1908- NACU Report of the Committee on Laws and Ordinances
1910- NACU Standard No. 4 Standard Building Regulations for the Use of Reinforced Concrete
1920- American Concrete Institute Standard Specifications No. 23
1927- Reinforced Concrete Building Design and Specifications
1936- Building Regulations for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 501-36T)
1941- Building Regulations for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-41)
1947- Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-47)
1951- Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-51)
1956- Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-56)
1963- Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-63)
1963- Commentary on Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-63)
1971- Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-71)
1971- Commentary on Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-71)
1973- Supplement to: Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-71)
1974- Supplement to: Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-71)
1975- Supplement to: Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-71)
1976- Supplement to: Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-71)
1977- Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-77)
1977- Commentary on Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318R-77)
1980- Supplement to: Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-77)
1983- Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-83)
1983- Commentary on Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318R-83)
1983- Building Code Requirements for Structural Plain Concrete (ACI 318.1-83) and Commentary
1986- Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-83) (Revised 1986)
1986- Supplement to: Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-83) and (ACI 318M-83) and Commentary
1989- Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-89) and Commentary (ACI 318R-89)
1989- Building Code Requirements for Structural Plain Concrete (ACI 318.1-89) and Commentary
(ACI 318.1R-89)
1992- Building Code Requirements for Reinforced Concrete (ACI 318-89) and Commentary (ACI 318R-89) (Revised 1992)
1992- Building Code Requirements for Structural Plain Concrete (ACI 318.1-89) and Commentary (ACI 318.1R-89) (Revised 1992)
1995- Building Code Requirements for Structural Concrete (ACI 318-95) and Commentary (ACI 318R-95)
1999- Building Code Requirements for Structural Concrete (ACI 318-99) and Commentary (ACI 318R-99)
2002- Building Code Requirements for Structural Concrete (ACI 318-02) and Commentary (ACI 318R-02)
2005- Building Code Requirements for Structural Concrete (ACI 318-05) and Commentary (ACI 318R-05)

This site sells it at a slight discount for $178.65

By the time you’re done with it, that memory stick will certainly be treasured memento that holds a place of esteem alongside your other well-worn texts =)

 

[IEGeezer]

It is best to proceed with caution. You don't want to put the cart before the horse. We don't know yet what happened, so we can't prevent it.

However, it appears that the building was built too low to begin with, which cannot be blamed on sea level rise, but you can start by building well above the current water table.

120 Years ago or so, the city of Miami was quarantined because of yellow fever. At

http://digitalcollections.fiu.edu/tequesta/files/1995/95_1_02.pdf

you can read an interesting account of how it was dealt with. It helps to read it using some historical perspective. A lot of very costly things were done but the mosquitoes weren't quarantined. You don't want to repeat mistakes. There is no substitute for knowledge.

In the epilogue, the Reed Commission is mentioned. That would be Major Walter Reed after whom the hospital was named when he died of a ruptured appendix.

Some of the treatments for yellow fever:



We need to get this right. In the meantime, more inspections can't hurt.

EDIT: It seems as if the building didn't meet code when built and the code has been updated since then, so further updates would not be specific to this tragedy. Since this is not my area of expertise, does code specifically address repairs? It seems to me that more focus needs to be made on all the repairs that were made to the pool deck. How are such repairs regulated?

 

[SFCharlie]

The ACI sells a thumb drive with every version and supplementary documentation from 1908 to 2005 (fully searchable) for $200

Thank you, I'm now the proud owner of an ACI thumbdrive, it's now on a slow boat from ACI and should be here in about 3 weeks.


SF Charlie
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[SFCharlie]

does code specifically address repairs

That's local jurisdiction, as far as I know. Here in the bay area, it's typically if the cost of the repair is more that 50% of the appraised value, one must bring the repair up to current code. Otherwise, it has to meet the code that was in effect at the time of the original construction

 

[IEGeezer]

I am familiar with that. What I was questioning was the "full depth" repairs to the pool deck or any other repairs that expose rebar. I don't have enough detailed knowledge to understand whether how the repairs are made is regulated. How does a "patchwork quilt" slab behave according to the models on which the structural calculations are made? I have more of a background in modeling and my concern is how does the reality of a patchwork quilt relate to the idealistic models of how materials are supposed to behave? Can the "code" (which is based on models) be honestly applied to something that may behave very differently than the idealistic models on which the code is based?

At what point does someone need to step in and say that you can't treat a slab like "my grandfather's axe: I've replaced the head twice and the handle three times"?

 

[Vance Wiley]

A new one to me but I LOVE it.
Thank you!

 

[Demented]

EDIT: It seems as if the building didn't meet code when built and the code has been updated since then, so further updates would not be specific to this tragedy. Since this is not my area of expertise, does code specifically address repairs? It seems to me that more focus needs to be made on all the repairs that were made to the pool deck. How are such repairs regulated?

If I recall correctly, FBC only refered us to ACI 318 for repair with major emphasis on minimums.
Inspection is still put off onto the wrong hands in this state, but at least we have ACI 562 now.

 

[alr1970]

https://twitter.com/ICELibrary/status/1432977654437847040?s=20[/URL]]Progressive Collapse and #Structural Health Monitoring (SHM) Collection
In response to collapse of Champlain Towers South in Florida, ASCE Library assembled papers highlighting importance of condition assessment of existing buildings. Free until 15 Sept.

https://ascelibrary.org/SHMcollection

 

[SFCharlie]

Please, do yourself a favor, get a subscription the USAToday. They seem to be the only national newspaper do a follow up on Surfside.
For example
Defunct and disorganized: Surfside town records detail woes of code, building departments

SF Charlie
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[Vance Wiley]

https://t[/URL]]

The interesting one is about flat slab structures - like CTS.
It has been downloaded over 1800 times. It is either 13 or 18 pages.
@Charlie - It could be a good thing to have all these in the library for this forum - while they are free.
Now there is the beginning of a code to guide(?) the investigation of building disasters.
Kudos to ASCE.