Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12 60

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11

SF Charlie
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[AusG]

I was agreeing with you out loud. There had been some debate a few threads back about that door and planter being what it is, so I added my vote.

 

[Optical98]

AugG

Thank you. I've gotten too used to snarky replies on here, lol.

 

[SFCharlie]

Let me know if this helps,

Yes, That helps a lot!


SF Charlie
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[AusG]

No probs. For my sins I help mod a news & politics website. I see way too much pointless snark to wish to add to it.

 

[sgw1009]

Angela and Devon Gonzalez from 904 were interviewed this morning on the Today show (NBC).

Link:

https://www.today.com/news/surfside-condo-survivors-recall-traumatizing-building-collapse-t229570

 

[StructuralMadness]

I have purchased the entire historical series of ACI 318 building codes to understand what were the provisions back in 1970s. And there were a lot of things that have stayed pretty much the same since we started understanding structural engineering and mechanics. The only problem is it is in a USB drive that is formatted and I can’t somehow upload and send it over.

But yeah splice requirements, punching capacity, shear capacity of beams, direct design method, column reinforcement and all are the same. The missing things in ACI 318-77 code were integrity reinforcement, different phi factors compared to today’s ACI, factored load combinations specified by ACI and all.

 

[MaudSTL]

Angela and Devon Gonzalez from 904 were interviewed this morning on the Today show (NBC).

Link:

https://www.today.com/news/surfside-condo-survivor...

Thanks. This resolves one question…we now know the Gonzalezes did not make it out to the hallway. The floor collapsed outside the bedroom door.

So this means we do not know whether or not their apartment door could have been opened.

I will update the timeline to clarify.

 

[1973Hokie]

 

[MaudSTL]

Congratulations on the credit you received on the NYT infographic of 9/1/2021!

 

[Vance Wiley]

That is an impressive production. Very well presented.
Many thanks for the link.
The presentation is so "real" and complete it brings to mind something that has bothered me over the last 20 years or more - it MUST NOT be allowed in a court proceeding. It is too convincing.
All they left out are the concrete eating termites from Mars.
My point being it will be hard for a jury (there will be no engineers on the jury - particularly structurals) to believe they have not witnessed all the defects that that contributed to the collapse and deaths. The video will instantly make them something like someone who knew the defendant well.
Any attorney working against some point is working uphill already.
Hell, I'm convinced. And I have sat in the box beside the Judge and explained many things to Juries.
Thanks again for the link.

 

[SFCharlie]

Great Graphics
Thanks also to:

Nice Model and article from NY Times titled "The Surfside Condo Was Flawed and Failing. Here’s a Look Inside."
Edit: Warning for some, No mention on Top First.......

Here is the shared code for the article above
The Surfside Condo Was Flawed and Failing. Here’s a Look Inside.
I subscribe to the NYTs and they let me share 10 articles a month free.

SF Charlie
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[Red Corona]

> What if, one of the balconies between the red lines below fails and falls, thus collapsing the pool deck

Any 'a thing falls and starts the pool deck collapse' needs to explain why 111 didn't mention it, as it would presumably have fallen right outside their window.

 

[dik]

A really good presentation from the NYT, Charlie.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

OK folks, too many What Ifs, sounds like we are pulling baseless scenarios out of the sky in search of supporting facts, like throwing a hail Mary pass and seeing what sticks against the wall. I prefer to go by spotting evidence first that leads to a legitimate root cause, something other than falling balconies, which we already explained last night the security video from 87 Park next door showed all balconies seemed to be intact when the collapse started. People actually think that navy ship test blast 400 miles away could have collapsed the building.

 

[MaudSTL]

All they left out are the concrete eating termites from Mars.

I too was surprised they left out the concrete…they could have quoted the demolition folks and mentioned the ratings the concrete should have had by code.

…it will be hard for a jury (there will be no engineers on the jury - particularly structurals) to believe they have not witnessed all the defects that that contributed to the collapse and deaths. The video will instantly make them something like someone who knew the defendant well.

In St. Louis we have a lot of cases and a small, generous population, so residents are called to jury duty many times. I’ve been called four times, and served twice (once as foreman.) Anyhow, based on my jury experience, this infographic is indeed a jury spoiler.

One of the things I liked about it from the witness perspective is that they avoided the controversy over “which part of the deck fell first” by showing the collapsed area collapsing all at once. Despite what some people think, we have no collapse witness statement to support a deck collapse sequence. Each witness describes what they saw right in front of them…cars fallen into the garage as seen from the lobby and porte-cochere, and the pool deck collapsing as seen from 410. Instead of trying to establish a sequence of deck collapse, the infographic did a good job (at least to a lay person) of showing us the weak columns, the long span, and area left overloaded by the elimination of beams.

The infographic also avoids trying to define what the Nirs call the 1st Collapse…which we have struggled over in our discussions. It could have been any number of things, from any direction.

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

One thing a few of us noticed from the NIST video released on 8/25, on which I uploaded my frame by frame analysis video with my graphics overlay on the empty collapse site, is if you look at several closeups of the cut columns and beams you will see there appears to be virtually no large rock aggregate in the concrete, it should be 3/4" aggregate unless the code was different here in 1979 cocaine cowboy era. Yet look at those closeups, and it looks like there is virtually no aggregate in the concrete at all. So each picture now opens up more questions about the strength of the concrete when this condo was built.

 

[Optical98]

As usual with such articles, the "comments" are very interesting. So many comments mention holding the inspectors and permit approvers accountable... "Longford" could you please reply to a few of those -
"That would start with Finding the many boxes of documents the Town of Surfside seems to have Lost".
That is a fact worth noting, eh?

 

[AutisticBez]

Jeff, the video footage from 87 park is so bad that with the right squinting of the eyes, you can even make out what looks like a phallus in those dark shadows. Or maybe thats just my eyes.

 

[SFCharlie]

On the 1979 plans, on sheet s14 of 14, (page 35 of the .pdf) the column schedule, there is an 8" by 12" column called out under the letter "P", that is shown to be used on floor basement thru 11th.
I'm not very familiar with the plans, but I can't find where this column is used.
Help!

SF Charlie
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[AusG]

Re missing aggregate. I believe it is there (paler grains and patches just visible in the NIST broken column pics), breaking along exactly the same surface and hence no stronger than the surrounding concrete. Local limestone, either deteriorated or more likely never much good in the first place.