Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 18 30

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 13
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 14
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 15
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 16
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 17


SF Charlie
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[SFCharlie]

Thanks go to

notes:

https://www.nist.gov/disaster-failure-studies/nati...

His post has the link
national-construction-safety-team-ncst/advisory-committee-meetings
Edit: Note: also has link to video of previous meeting...

ncstac-june-2023-agenda(.pdf)

 

[MaudSTL]

If you intend to attend the NIST meeting, be sure to register by June 2. The registration info is at the bottom of the following announcement.

“The primary purposes of this meeting are to update the Committee on the progress of the NCST investigation focused on the impacts of Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico, progress of the NCST investigation focused on the Champlain Towers
South partial building collapse that occurred in Surfside, Florida, and the implementation of recommendations from previous investigations. The agenda may change to accommodate Committee business. The final agenda will be posted on the NIST website at

https://www.nist.gov/topics/disaster-

failure-studies/national-construction- safety-team-ncst/advisory-committee- meetings.
Individuals and representatives of organizations who would like to offer comments and suggestions related to items on the Committee’s agenda for this meeting are invited to request a place on the agenda. Approximately twenty minutes will be reserved for public comments and speaking times will be assigned on a first-come, first- served basis. The amount of time per speaker will be determined by the number of requests received. Questions from the public will not be considered during this period. All those wishing to speak must submit their request by email to the attention of Tina Faecke at tina.faecke@nist.gov by 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Friday, June 2, 2023. Any member of the public is also permitted to file a written statement with the advisory committee; speakers who wish to expand upon their oral statements, those who wish to speak but cannot be accommodated on the agenda, and those who are unable to attend are invited to submit written statements electronically by email to disaster@nist.gov.
All visitors to the NIST site are required to pre-register to be admitted. Anyone wishing to attend this meeting in-person or via web conference must register by 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Friday, June 2, 2023, to attend. Please submit your full name, the organization you represent (if applicable), email address, and phone number to Tina Faecke at tina.faecke@nist.gov. Non-U.S. citizens must submit additional information; please contact Tina Faecke at tina.faecke@nist.gov.”

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2023-04-07/pdf/2023-07329.pdf

 

[SFCharlie]

Anyone wishing to attend this meeting in-person or via web conference must register by 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Friday, June 2, 2023

Wow, that's a lot 'a information.
Thanks

SF Charlie
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[Sym P. le]

The final agenda will be posted on the NIST website at

https://www.nist.gov/topics/disaster-

failure-studies/national-construction- safety-team-ncst/advisory-committee- meetings.

The link needs some help --> [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.nist.gov/disaster-failure-studies/national-construction-safety-team-ncst/advisory-committee-meetings[/url]

Meeting Notice

Meeting Agenda and Presentations

Champlain Towers presentation is slated for June 15 from 9:00 a.m. to 12:45 p.m.

It will be broken down into four focus areas:

1. Evidence Collection, Measurements and Visualization
2. Structural, Geotechnical, and Materials Science Analysis/Testing
3. Failure Hypotheses
4. Conclusion and Next Steps

 

[SFCharlie]

1. Evidence Collection, Measurements and Visualization
2. Structural, Geotechnical, and Materials Science Analysis/Testing
3. Failure Hypotheses
4. Conclusion and Next Steps

Edit: ALL times are EDT
1. Evidence Collection, Measurements and Visualization - 9:40 am - 10:00 am
2. Structural, Geotechnical, and Materials Science Analysis/Testing - 10:25 am - 10:45 am
3. Failure Hypotheses - 11:25 am - 11:45 am
4. Conclusion and Next Steps - 12:10 pm - 12:30 pm

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[MaudSTL]

@Sym P. Le, thanks for fixing the link. For some reason I am unable to edit my own post even though I am logged in.

 

[SFCharlie]

undisclosed side job for Miami Mayor Francis Suarez
Not specifically relevant, but shows how the "Flash of Green" (a book my parents read and verified while living in Sarasota) works in Miami.
Achived
Please Donate

 

[MaudSTL]

In preparation for the June 15 NIST failure hypothesis, I have been making final edits to the Timeline of Witness Statements. Please help me get the column references right for posterity. I am using a designation that includes the grid designation and the parking space label, since the parking space label alone causes confusion.

K13.1 (Parking Spaces 74/75) is the column closest to the planter that cracked.
L11.1 (Parking Space 76) is the column showing long-term water damage in the garage video.

Which columns are closest to the puddle of standing water that the pool maintenance contractor saw?

Do I have the first two grid designations right?

Maud

 

[Reverse_Bias]

In preparation for the June 15 NIST failure hypothesis, I have been making final edits to the Timeline of Witness Statements. Please help me get the column references right for posterity. I am using a designation that includes the grid designation and the parking space label, since the parking space label alone causes confusion.

K13.1 (Parking Spaces 74/75) is the column closest to the planter that cracked.
L11.1 (Parking Space 76) is the column showing long-term water damage in the garage video.

Which columns are closest to the puddle of standing water that the pool maintenance contractor saw?

Do I have the first two grid designations right?

Maud

I believe L13.1 was closest to parking space 76 from this diagram posted a couple threads back.

However, L11.1 did have corrugated plastic over the spot where the beam connects, implying it likely had water damage also. This hasn't really been discussed since a month or two after the collapse.

 

[MaudSTL]

Thank you! So do you think the puddle by Parking Space 78 would have been by column M13.1?

FWIW, when I originally set up the Timeline, I was focused on the statements of survivors from the part of the building that collapsed. At this point, I thought I might as well add in statements by people describing the state of the building just before the collapse. So I decided to add the building manager who reported the planter crack and the pool maintenance contractor who saw all the standing water in the garage to the Timeline. I am also getting around to adding in Justin Willis from 1006, who experienced three distinct events, and Paolo Longobardi, who saw the pool deck collapse from south to north, from the part of the building that remained standing.

The surprising (to me) survivor was Paolo Longobardi from 309. After witnessing the collapse of the pool deck, he had his family run away from the west staircase next to their unit because he saw “it was collapsing” and go all the way to the east staircase, which he deemed safe, in the part of the building that collapsed. I have been unable to find any statements by Adriana Sarmiento to say that a family of four evacuated up the garage ramp. So I am guessing the Longobardis must have exited the east staircase at the first floor and then exited the building through the lobby. I recall Chani Nir saying in a contemporaneous interview that she saw a family run out of the building. What a nightmare!

 

[Reverse_Bias]

Thank you! So do you think the puddle by Parking Space 78 would have been by column M13.1?

Space 78 is by K11.1.

 

[MaudSTL]

Space 78 is by K11.1.

Thank you!

 

[IanCA]

After witnessing the collapse of the pool deck, he had his family run away from the west staircase next to their unit because he saw “it was collapsing” and go all the way to the east staircase, which he deemed safe, in the part of the building that collapsed.

Thank you for your continued work on the timeline and for refreshing and expanding upon the statements by Paolo Longobardi. In reporting by ABC link it states:

But the staircase directly outside their unit was collapsing, he said, so they had to find another one.

"We decided to run to the other side of the building, the north side of the building, where there is another staircase," he said. "While we're running, we're thinking, we don't know what's going on."

Longobardi, who is a civil engineer, said they found a staircase that was completely intact and he quickly checked for cracks or other signs of damage before they used it to escape. Although he and his family are safe, Longobardi said they are all "shocked."

That suggests there were cracks or other signs of damage related to the staircase nearest to their apartment, in the west side of the building, which led him to believe it was collapsing even though that portion of the building did not ultimately collapse. I agree with your sentiments.

 

[Murph 9000]

Although the west staircase survived the collapse, it was functionally blocked by the initial parking / pool deck collapse. The escape route from the west stair opened onto the pool deck, with no doorway from the stair to the lobby. In the period between the deck collapse and the tower collapse, the west stair was unusable as a normal escape route, but the east stair was ok.

 

[MaudSTL]

Thanks, @IanCA.

Paolo Longobardi is a civil engineer. Opening that west staircase door would have unleashed a dense cloud of dust, which had to have obscured visibility. I can understand why he redirected to the east staircase. It’s miraculous that they made it out of that side of the building in time.

 

[Sym P. le]

The Longobardi account speaks to the time span of the collapse. Fortunately, they were only on the third floor (unit 309) and had time to escape down the north (east) stairwell. That escape route was also fraught with hazard as it exits into the garage. What was the state of the garage when they passed through it? I wonder if the couple doing the video from across the street noticed them emerge from the garage.

The design of the fire escapes is a head scratcher since neither offered escape to the street. Instead, both offered to choral the occupants into the heart of the disaster.

 

[Murph 9000]

In the few minutes between the pool deck collapse and the tower collapse, it's very understandable that most people would choose the east stair. Whether it's by an engineer's analytical eye, observed damage by a layperson, or just psychology; the east stair would appear to be the safe or only option at the time. The west stair was at/in the collapse zone, with the escape route blocked. The east stair was away from the obvious damage, and offered two unblocked escape routes at ground level (corridor to lobby, or via the garage ramp). The west stair at that time offered a door out onto the collapsed pool deck which probably had roughly a 1 story drop from the doorway to the collapsed deck, or a door into the garage which would be adjacent to rubble and chaos.

 

[Sym P. le]

We don't know how much of the pool deck initially collapsed. The Longobardi's had a unique vantage point and quick wits, which when combined, gave them the information they needed as well as the where with all to react accordingly. Even with these factors in their favour, they did not have any control over the time that was offered to them and may have met a worse fate. An occupant on a higher floor facing west or north would not have sufficient information to make an informed decision and would consider a familiar solution should they wish to vacate the premises. Others, as we know, became paralyzed while attempting to evaluate their circumstances.

What we know is that at least two families had sufficient time from earliest indicators to collect themselves and escape prior to the main tower collapse though only from the lowest floors, Longobardi, Unit 309, and Nir, Unit 111.

 

[Murph 9000]

We know from the ramp video that the initial pool deck collapse extended north to at least KLM 11.1, possibly right up to KLM 9.1 (the south wall of the wing that collapsed). That makes it highly likely that the normal escape route from the west stair was either completely blocked by the pool deck collapse, or extremely compromised. We don't know for certain if the deck was gone from immediately outside the stairwell exit door, but the two routes beyond that were certainly either gone or extremely perilous (east towards the beach, or south then west around the exterior of the lobby to the front of the building). The exit door opened onto the deck between 9.1 and 11.1, adjacent to 9.1 / the south wall of the tower.

 

[Nukeman948]

And with all of this speculation on escape routes that survivors may have taken, I am still searching for some explanation on how Shamoka got from the lobby to the parking level. (She doesn't remember) The door from the west stairwell to the parking level was likely still serviceable since it was adjacent to the elevators. But if she could get into the stairwell from the lobby, there must have been an escape route from the stairs to the lobby. Perhaps one of the stairwell walls had collapsed at the lobby level and she crawled over the rubble into the stairwell before descending to the parking level?

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