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Partial collapse of 12 storey apartment building in Miami Beach:
Was built in 1981. Not much information as yet.
Building profile:
Was built in 1981. Not much information as yet.
Building profile:
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Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse 151
- Thread starter bugbus
- Start date
darthsoilsguy2
Geotechnical
I'm SUPER SUSPICIOUS about that central chase with elevator/stairs/utilities. That wall is the failure plane and those shafts are definitely part of the shear transfer. I must have had at least 20 projects where the transition point between slabs and shafts are a total mess during rebar inspection and require lots of extra work to keep going.
The problem apparently existed for several years...
"SURFSIDE, Fla. (AP) — The oceanfront condominium building that collapsed near Miami had “major structural damage” to a concrete structural slab below its pool deck that needed to be extensively repaired, according to a 2018 engineering report on the building.
The report was among a series of documents released by the city of Surfside as rescuers continued to dig Saturday through the rubble of the building in an effort to find any of the 159 people who remain unaccounted for after its collapse."
Anyone able to obtain a copy of this report?
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
"SURFSIDE, Fla. (AP) — The oceanfront condominium building that collapsed near Miami had “major structural damage” to a concrete structural slab below its pool deck that needed to be extensively repaired, according to a 2018 engineering report on the building.
The report was among a series of documents released by the city of Surfside as rescuers continued to dig Saturday through the rubble of the building in an effort to find any of the 159 people who remain unaccounted for after its collapse."
Anyone able to obtain a copy of this report?
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RickyTickyTavi
Structural
NYT Article indicates that column cracking was epoxy injected, but cracks reformed directly adjacent. That to me is a pretty clear indicated that the root cause of the cracking still existed. If there was embedded and ongoing corrosion of the rebar for the columns that wasnt addressed in 2018, that may be a contributing factor.
I see from the drawings there is a transfer beam as well, I have not looked at the shear reinforcement in that area, but if the reinforcement is corroding in the below grade beam, but if the Vs value drops due to corrosion of the ties, that could be a source of concern as well.
I see from the drawings there is a transfer beam as well, I have not looked at the shear reinforcement in that area, but if the reinforcement is corroding in the below grade beam, but if the Vs value drops due to corrosion of the ties, that could be a source of concern as well.
dik, here is report you requested.
Maybe the're the same... I got the impression that the 'second' report was more comprehensive... I didn't get that from the Maratibo report.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
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There is a difference between designing a building and maintaing one, the design/build/inspection system works. Unfortunately the maintence of these structures are left to property management companies that do not have to show that they have the knowledge to maintain the structure or its systems.
Now for rant (I apologize)
The fact that column was not shored immediately, to study the cause of the distress makes me extremely frustrated. Buildings, do have problems but when a visible issue is not investigated for 3 years, someone needs to go to prison. The lack of accountability drives me nuts, for example.
1) I' am not a Electrical Engineer, but yet I know that the Switch Gears need to be greased and maintained.
2) I' am not Mechanical Engineer, but yet I know that cooling towers need to be cleaned.
3) I'am not a specialty engineer (elevators) but I know that the motors and cables need to be maintained.
There are many things that I personally am not qualified qualified to do, or in the case of the switch gear (too afraid to do) but yet it is pretty simple and inexpensive to find a qualified professional maintain the systems.
/
Now for rant (I apologize)
The fact that column was not shored immediately, to study the cause of the distress makes me extremely frustrated. Buildings, do have problems but when a visible issue is not investigated for 3 years, someone needs to go to prison. The lack of accountability drives me nuts, for example.
1) I' am not a Electrical Engineer, but yet I know that the Switch Gears need to be greased and maintained.
2) I' am not Mechanical Engineer, but yet I know that cooling towers need to be cleaned.
3) I'am not a specialty engineer (elevators) but I know that the motors and cables need to be maintained.
There are many things that I personally am not qualified qualified to do, or in the case of the switch gear (too afraid to do) but yet it is pretty simple and inexpensive to find a qualified professional maintain the systems.
/
dik, This might offer clues:
That class action was filed less than 24 hours after the collapse. While legal action is inevitable, and surely is warranted at some point, less than 24 hours is barely enough time to write the submission let alone vet any of the claims it makes. Moreover, if it was your family in the building would your first instinct, less than 24 hours after collapse, be to get a class action lawyer involved?
Makes me sad. What an absolute tragedy (what happened and what will happen).
Makes me sad. What an absolute tragedy (what happened and what will happen).
darthsoilsguy2
Geotechnical
Question for the SEs: i've got a "can you design this building like this under todays codes?" question.... Specifically, can the stair tower in the far wing NOT be designed with just 1 shear wall? Isn't there some limit to how much open floor plan you can have before you connect to a shear wall? (Seems like there should be, just sayin') The video shows the building dropping up against the central shaft first.... then there is a delay and far end of the wing becomes unstable and drops. I wonder if that stair tower had been a full rigid box could it have done the job of halting the progression and saved a third of the lives???
I have family in an old low-rise condo down there. One of the buildings near the water was settling badly, and they reached out to a foundation repair contractor. I then received a call from one of the board members, who thought their proposal of four helical piles was way too many and they could get away with two.
These condos are full of cheapskate board members who think they’re engineers. And the owners don’t understand that these coastal RC structures have usable lifespans. As they age, repairs (and special assessments) will get more frequent, until the building becomes uneconomical to repair and must be demolished. I predict that in the coming decades, you’ll see older units become essentially “free”, with astronomical fees to fund repairs.
These condos are full of cheapskate board members who think they’re engineers. And the owners don’t understand that these coastal RC structures have usable lifespans. As they age, repairs (and special assessments) will get more frequent, until the building becomes uneconomical to repair and must be demolished. I predict that in the coming decades, you’ll see older units become essentially “free”, with astronomical fees to fund repairs.
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RickyTickyTavi
Structural
Yeah, I'll chime in that I mostly do forensic structural engineering and repair design in my career -- I'll add to SocklessJ and JRs87 statement, that anecdotally Condo boards and HOA's are often the least versed clients (present company not withstanding) and often the most cost conscious we/I have. For commercial properties, there are some property management companies that have the stuff well handled and communicate wtih ownership very effectively to get things repaired and done. Other property management firms get pummeled by ownership and defer repairs because they cost money.
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mfgenggear
Aerospace
engineer WARNED ABOUT DAMAGE
is a near carbon copy.
TheGreenLama
Structural
I still can't get over how cleanly that structural steel unzipped from the floor slabs. It reminds me of what you might see when pulling electrical wiring out of drywall. There is definitely some compromised concrete here.
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