More on the Paradise, CA Camp Electrical Fires 4

[MacGyverS2000]

This is a continuation of an older thread here:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=459781

Just came across this Twitter feed with some interesting analysis tidbits on the towers and the resulting fire:

https://twitter.com/TubeTimeUS/status/1306359385656946688

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[dik]

Looks a little like a fatigue type failure...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[JohnRBaker]

And the continuous swinging back and forth in the wind, with the extra stress of thermal expansion/contraction going from the hot summers to the cold winters, didn't help. If it's true that the hooks and insulators are 97 years old, that's a lot of time for the iron to have been subject to those conditions.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[JohnMcNutt]

The continuous fuel from ignition to homes also plays into this incident.

It could have been a car fire, or someone shooting, or any number of sources that would have had the same result.

But there was an obvious cause of this one, whom everyone dislikes, and possibly an opportunity to further some agendas....

 

[FacEngrPE]

What John describes will result in Fretting Corrosion -

https://www.corrosionpedia.com/definition/553/fretting-corrosion

Fred

 

[LionelHutz]

Sure, it was a lack of maintenance that actually caused that fire. But that fact shouldn't resolve all others from any responsibility by putting the blame for what happened solely on PG&E. Many other things could have caused that fire.

There seems to be a very lacking plan to protect many of the foothill communities in CA from forest fires. People want their housing with woodlands surrounding them, safety be damn. But, that is the same as many, many other communities in other areas. And it doesn't apply to just housing in woodlands either. Should quit making any kind of insurance available for housing in hazardous locations and it would stop much of this neglect. It really should piss off anyone who has a house not in a natural disaster location that their insurance payments are supporting housing in such locations.

As for PG&E, that's what happens when utilities are turned into for profit stock market traded operations. Same thing is happening in many other areas in North America.

 

[JohnMcNutt]

As for PG&E, that's what happens when utilities are turned into for profit stock market traded operations. Same thing is happening in many other areas in North America.

PG&E was not exactly "turned into" a public corporation. They kind of wrote the book on power transmission and generation from the very beginning of its existence. Back in the days when this was built, the government was not involved in the provision of power (or many services) at all. It was a different time and a different culture.

I suppose if this incident had happened back in 1919 or whenever, the responsible persons (executives) may have more likely been held responsible, or possibly lynched.

But this was set into motion so long ago, no one is alive who remembers how the decisions were made, and even > 90% of their children are long dead and gone.

I have a modest proposal. If fuel conditions on your land are (un)maintained in such a condition that a fire which comes onto it on one side carries across the land and goes off the other side to damage valuable property and lives, you bear a sizeable percent of the responsibility. Absent landowners and unmaintained land held by speculators is a substantial part of this problem.

 

[LionelHutz]

I didn't say they were turned into a public corporation. I wrote they turned into a "for profit stock market traded operation". The "new" normal where the company executive pulls any and all kinds of BS to ensure the company stock does well, with almost everything else being damned. Often the CEO/board works there just long enough pulling this shady BS to collect their multi-million dollar bonuses for increasing the stock price/shares a certain amount, leaving the place in shambles after they move on. Then, they claim the stock success on their resume for the next corporation. Even sadder is the insider trading of stocks during their time there because they know the content of the upcoming quarterly public announcements.

 

[JayMaechtlen]

Re fuel conditions:
If you own land in what is a continuous forest, does it make sense to have to create fire breaks on two or more sides? Offhand, I wouldn't think so. Of course sizes of holdings vary from city lot size up to thousands of acres.
However, an organized city in such areas should be responsible for planning effective fire control measures.

Re insurance:
Some friends have their home in Idyllwild, a mountain community here in SoCal. Their fire insurance is expensive and certainly doesn't seem to be subsidized by anyone else's rates.


Jay Maechtlen

http://www.laserpubs.com/techcomm

 

[1503-44]

They most likely chose those areas because it is outside city limits where there is no organization, no homeowners association rules and little else to worry about, least of all fires, not to say that they shouldn't worry about fire. Its just that they don't.

 

[JohnMcNutt]

I agree on stock price manipulation. Short term thinking. It can only go on so long until the chickens come home to roost. The owners (shareholders) certainly got soaked in this debacle.

As to the land management. Roughly 50% of the tinder that carried this fire (east of town) is owned by the federal government. You can't tell them to do anything, and they don't care. I don't know about who owns the private part but it is not put to any productive purpose. Just a bunch of steep canyons and brush.

 

[1503-44]

Fire is just another one of Mother Nature's land management tools. You don't do it your way, she will do it her's.