More work! 6

[shin25]

Hi,

I was wondering if any one could give me some idea about doing some part time work after 5 pm, etc. I work full time as an structural engineer. I have some free time after work. I am sure that there are firms who are over flowing with projects. I think these firms may be a good source to start. But, how to proceed? Do they really hire part time engineers after hours? What are your thoughts?

By the way, I am a registered professional engineer (civil).

 

[bridgebuster]

StressGuy is right. "It will always be true: No one ever laid on their deathbed wishing they'd spent more time at the office".

Working long hours non-stop gets old, real fast.

One reason why employers prohibilt moonlighting is because of the potential liability. A few years ago, we had to take a course from our professional liability carrier and they explained why they didn't like moonlighting: In the event of a claim against your secondary employer or you acting on his behalf the insurance carrier for the engineer's primary employer could be held liable.

 

[csd72]

bridgebuster,

This ridiculous legal situation has gotten out of control. If my industry was run like the legal profession, buildings would be falling down left right and center.

The word is then, sue anyone who has a link to the fault even if they had nothing to do with it, as long as they have insurance.

Our societies need to petition the government for change on these types of legal loopholes.

But in reality does this apply if the person is moonlighting under another companies insurance? If so then this would mean that someone couldnt work part time for 2 different companies, which sounds crazy.

It does make sense though if a person is issuing stamped drawings without their own insurance - I can see the problem here.

csd

 

[GMcD]

There is something that doesn't make sense here- if, as Shin25 says, that every engineering company is super-busy in his area (?) and he's only working till 5PM and looking for more work- I have to question what his company is doing- are they not that busy? Or is Shin25 not very busy in his particular geographic location/time zone, and wants to do "remote source" work for busy firms outside his geographic location/time zone? Usually, if other firms are very busy, the salaries rise naturally as firms want to keep their people, and avoid them being poached by other busy firms, so there shouldn't be a need to pad your salary with more overtime.

A quote from Shin25: "We need extra money to have a nice vacation, to buy a nice jewelery for wife or throw a nice birthay party for our sons, etc. I guess all these are redundant, but can anybond not accept these facts?"

Well, I personally cannot accept these "facts". You "need"?? extra money for these frills? Caught up in the conspicuous consumerism culture are we? Maybe re-adjust your "needs" and evaluate what's really important- family time with a few less perks, or work all the time and not have time to see your wife's jewelery or make it to your kid's birthday? Having more money to be able to get more "stuff" may not be the right solution at the end of the day.

 

[bridgebuster]

csd72,

The insurance company said it didn't matter, insurance or not. The company I was with had to agree to adopt a no outside employment policy in order to qualify for a lower rate.

I suppose if the person is covered by insurance under the second job it might be harder to sue, but I remember a statement that an attorney made during a jury interview:

"People say why do you sue everybody; that's because we need to find out how many people are responsibile."

About 15 years ago we were sued for a construction accident; one worker killed and one injured. We had no involvement whatsoever with the construction; also the accident was due to the contractor's means and method.

Why were we sued: Our name was on the plans. Eventually, we were released from the suit but it still cost us over $50 grand; a lot of money for a small firm.

The nice thing about being a lawyer is the ability to invent work. It's too bad we can't go out and build a bridge or a building and then ask some one to pay us.

 

[csd72]

But if the companies names are not on the plans, how can they sue that company?

 

[Lion06]

shin-
I am not saying it is right or wrong for a company to have a policy against moonlighting, but many do. As others have pointed out, if you truly feel like there is no problem with what you are doing, then why not tell your employer? Additionally, as others have pointed out, your state may have ethical issues with this. It would certainly be in your best interest to make sure all involved know what you are doing.

 

[ScottyUK]

While I appreciate that the employment situation in the US is quite different to the UK, I think the easiest way to get around this problem you have created for yourself has already been mentioned: become a contractor on an hourly rate with paid O/T.


----------------------------------

I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem...

 

[josephv]

Hello Shin,

StructuralEIT makes an excellent point. I am not sure where you are working. Here in Ontario an engineer is required to tell their employer about any moonlight work that they do, even if it does not compete with them. Here is an excerpt from the code of ethics:

A practitioner who is an employee-engineer and is contracting in the practitioner's own name to perform professional engineering work for other than the practitioner's employer, must provide the practitioner's client with a written statement of the nature of the practitioner's status as an employee and the attendant limitations on the practitioner's services to the client, must satisfy the practitioner that the work will not conflict with the practitioner's duty to the practitioner's employer, and must inform the practitioner's employer of the work.

 

[bridgebuster]

csd72 - Professional liability idemnifies both the company and the engineer.

How does the lawyer for the plaintiff know that the primary employer has nothing to do with the problem?

Also, what do think will happen when the jury hears a lawyer say to the defendant "...but your employer has a policy against moonlighting..." or "...why you didn't obtain your employer's consent to take a second job..." ?

 

[csd72]

This legal situation is insane.

So they just going around sueing people like a loose cannon just in case they can get something, even if they have no idea about any connection.

In that case, the only solution is for more people to start couter sueing them to get reimbursement for their expenses.

csd

 

[zuccus]

shin25,

I don't know your situation and it is probably completely different than mine. Before I signed on to my current firm, I ammended my contract with them to allow me to do moonlighting work for certain specifically named companies I was doing business with them at the time. This got all of the problems out of the way quickly as it was terms for my employement agreement.

I recently had to add one to the list and wrote a nice little letter explaining (again) that at no time would I be using company resources, blah, blah, blah..., at no time would they be liable for my aggreements with my new client, etc.

Off the record I explained to my boss the extents of the projects and the revenue, only because he was more interested into what I was getting into.

Currently I am officially employed at 4 companies in my greater metro area. Hasn't been a problem... yet.

My situation is probably easier as I am not an engineer and have never played one on tv either, so I don't get into the professional liablity situations that you might encounter.

Zuccus

 

[jaypartain]

csd72,

"I also believe that you should be able to moonlight if you want. If they dont pay you enough to cover your needs then you should be able to obtain extra income"

I seriously doubt any engineer does not make enough to cover his/her "needs". A person's "wants" may be another story. If someone does not feel they get paid enough, that is not the company's problem. If you agree to work for a particular salary, then how is the company at fault?

Whether or not you should moonlight is not the most important question. If your company does not allow it, then you either don't moonlight or you can go find another job. No matter how you justify it, a lie is a lie. Going behind the company's back when you are not supposed to is a lie.

 

[csd72]

jaypartain,

Where I live we would be struggling on my salary alone, and we dont have children.

To a certain extent you have to take what is the going rate even if you are not happy about it.

csd

 

[TDAA]

The nice thing about being a lawyer is the ability to invent work. It's too bad we can't go out and build a bridge or a building and then ask some one to pay us.

That called a developer. Of courese, not so much on the bridge side.

 

[Gymmeh]

If you have free time, what about getting your employer to pay for your Msc, MsEng, or MBA. Then get a raise...

and you dont even have to get into the gray area of ethic's...