Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii 7

[Alistair_Heaton]

If they are as bad as some of the UK bunkers I don't blame the locals wanting them empty.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...-to-drain-fuel-tanks-that-contaminated-water/

 

[RVAmeche]

This has been an on-going issue for decades. The civilians don't want massive fuel storage in a mountain above their fresh water supply. The military maintains this is a strategic stockpile that's required for national security. They continue to promise all the leaks are fixed and everything is fine...

 

[LittleInch]

Hmmmm 100 ft diam x 250 ft high steel lined concrete buried tanks...

Oh built 1940 so 80 yers old.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Going to side with the civi's on this one.....

 

[1503-44]

Just don't look up.

 

[FacEngrPE]

Unlined concrete tanks are worse. I would also be concerned if an 80 year old oil storage facility was sitting on top of my water supply.
Hazardous Waste Cleanup: Virginia Emergency Fuel Storage Facility in Yorktown, Virginia

Constructed March 1943,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheatham_Annex

This 460-acre state-owned facility has been abandoned since 1982. The site is located within a few miles of popular tourist attractions (Colonial Williamsburg National Historic Park, Jamestown Settlement and Busch Gardens ) in and around Williamsburg, Virginia. Recognizing the value of this large piece of land, York County is interested in turning the abandoned land into productive use.

The Virginia Emergency Fuel Storage Facility, York County, Virginia, was formerly owned by the Navy and was a part of the Navy's Cheatham Annex. The 460-acre Facility contains 23 two-million-gallon underground tanks and several miles of underground fuel lines. Between 1973 and early 1980s, the Virginia Department Of Emergency Services (VDES) leased the Facility from the Navy to store fuels during the energy crisis.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I would be concerned for any of this sort of facility, constructed for or in support of the military, during a time of war or in anticipation of war. First, because high quality materials and personnel may not have been available, and second, the emphasis would be on getting it done as quickly as possible without any real concern for the long term consequences. After all, the nation was at war or about to go to war, and that's what would have been driving the priorities to say nothing of the planning and execution of the project.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[pmover]

This leak is the reason why all personnel living where the well serves are not living at home, but in hotels.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

they had a fuel leak In Glasgow into the water system and it wasn't that much, less than a ton, and it took 9 months to clear it out, and get the sewage farms working again properly

 

[1503-44]

A lot of military bases are turning into potential disaster sites. There is a problem with carcenogins in fire retardants used by the DOD getting into water supplies in a number of cities.

https://www.greenlifestylemarket.co...e-contaminating-drinking-water-across-the-us/

https://www.militarytimes.com/2019/...ncer-causing-chemicals-in-the-drinking-water/

Go to the interactive map

https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/pfas_contamination/map/

Trump's Forever Chemical reporting loopholes

https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/n...y-shirking-epa-reporting-requirements-forever

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

They had a purge on them in the UK while I was still in 20 plus years ago.

The military used to have a thing called crown exemption which was removed about then.

The mil fuel pipelines though are not the best and they are trying to decide what to do with them. Mind you the civi ones are getting near then end of life as well.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Well it was either that or poison every one with lead.

 

[Cool_Controls]

I hear if you mix in some kool-aid you cant even taste the MTBE.

 

[zeusfaber]

The military used to have a thing called crown exemption which was removed about then.

That was just one episode in an interesting Good news/Bad news (or the other way round, depending on your perspective) story.

When Section 10 of the 1947 Crown Proceedings Act was repealed in 1987, it became possible to sue the UK Military for (some) Civil Torts in a way you previously couldn't.

Lots of UK laws now have written in right up at the front that they specifically don't apply to the Armed Forces.

In response to that, successive Secretaries of State for Defence have adopted a policy that "In circumstances where the nature of Defence and Security activities inevitably conflict with health and safety requirements and thus Defence has Derogations, Exemptions, or Dis-applications from HS&EP legislation, or where other circumstances indicate the need for Defence regulation of activities, we maintain Departmental arrangements that produce outcomes that are, so far as reasonably practicable, at least as good as those required by UK legislation."

Though, of course, a SoS has the right to change their policy at five seconds' notice.

Even where laws do still apply, it still isn't possible for (Crown) Enforcing Agencies to prosecute (Crown) Departments of State for breaches of Criminal Law.

It is, however, possible for the Enforcing Authorities to delivery an exquisitely calibrated slap to the wrist in the form of a Crown Censure. Across Government, a couple of these appear most years.

A.

 

[1503-44]

Gasoline needed another octane sweetener when adding lead was prohibited.

No point in removing reporting controls for hazardous chemicals. That's how we find out who is dumping it into the water.

UK isn't the highest, but its pretty high.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cancer_rate

As Long as we're at it, here's the US superfund site interactive map,

https://www.epa.gov/superfund/search-superfund-sites-where-you-live

And the toxic air map

https://projects.propublica.org/toxmap/

UK interactive map doesn't work, since it uses Flash player which has been universally depreciated from web service use for a couple of years now.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I'm sorry, but providing a link to an item which accurately described an action taken by the EPA during the Trump administration is hardly "making this political", not when in your next breath you explicitly mention political parties by name.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Spartan5]

”Discharging gasoline into the drinking water and environment isn’t the problem. It’s the democrats that added MTBE to it.”

That sounds so stupid.

How gasoline do you want in your drinking water? With or without MTBE?

How much benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene would you like to be exposed to on a daily basis?

How’s about we just set the bar somewhere above make the tank not leak?

 

[TugboatEng]

Gasoline has a higher LD50 than ethanol yet we often voluntarily drink the latter.

Anyways, MTBE really was a Democrats' problem.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRECB-2005-pt14/html/CRECB-2005-pt14-Pg18251-7.htm

 

[Spartan5]

Gasoline has a higher LD50 than ethanol yet we often voluntarily drink the latter.

That’s acute toxicity. Not chronic exposure. And per the US Department of Health and Human Services’ Toxicological Profile for Gasoline, probably isn’t accurate anyway.

But tell me more about how you’d drink a shot of gasoline once a week because it’s not as acutely toxic as ethanol. Woof! Methinks you might have been sprinkling a bit too many lead paint chips on your ice cream when you were a kid.

These other questions still stand. How gasoline do you want in your drinking water? With or without MTBE?

How much benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene would you like to be exposed to on a daily basis?

How’s about we just set the bar somewhere above make the tank not leak?

 

[Spartan5]

And lest we be distracted by these blatherings about MTBE:

HONOLULU – Samples collected from the Navy’s Red Hill drinking water shaft on Sunday December 5 tested positive for high levels of gasoline and diesel range hydrocarbons. This is consistent with visual observations and odors detected by Hawaiʻi Department of Health (DOH) staff when the samples were collected.

DOH received the detailed lab reports late last night. The reports were immediately analyzed by DOH staff.

Samples from the Navy’s Red Hill Shaft contained total petroleum hydrocarbons diesel range organics (TPH-d) 350 times the DOH Environmental Action Level (EAL) for drinking water. The Red Hill Shaft samples also tested positive for gasoline range organics more than 66 times the DOH EAL.

The DOH samples were analyzed by Eurofins Laboratory in California. Eurofins found 140,000 parts per billion (ppb) of TPH-d. The DOH EAL for TPH-d is 400 ppb. Eurofins found total petroleum hydrocarbons gasoline range organics (TPH-g) at 20,000 ppb. The EAL for TPH-g is 300 ppb.

Can I get a show of hands from those of us here that want to drink that?