Lahaina, Maui, Hawaii 40

[3DDave]

Another wild fire sweeping through a residential area - it leads me to wonder if exterior sprinkler systems, particularly for roofs, would be sufficient to slow the progress of such fires.

I noted a multi-story apartment or hotel that was generally intact, suffering some interior fire which the sprinkler system may have stopped. The roof was untouched simply from height and the exterior which appeared to be brick - likely the windows or their frames failed in the heat. It was surrounded by ash.

As they are on the ocean the supply of water suitable to the use is well available as long as power for pumps is available. Besides electric pumps, pumps directly driven by diesel and the possibility of adding fire boats pumping water to the system seems worth considering. It's along the ocean so additional salt water should be more acceptable than fire.

 

[waross]

Another definition;
Someone more than 50 miles away from home.

Back to Tug's link. So Hawaii is refusing to release of list of the missing,

"Who are we looking for Bob?"
"I don't know Charlie, but we won't quit until we find him!"

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[TugboatEng]

This whole privacy thing is confusing, and stupid.

The privacy bit certainly gives credence to the rumor that most of the missing are children.

 

[SnTMan]

Dave? Dave's not here, man

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[cranky108]

Reading yesterday, that side of the island only receives about 15 inch of rain a year, where the other side of the island receives about 300 inch of rain.
The pineapple fields were left in the 80's, and none native grasses took over.

So it seems that farming is not so much of the issue, but the lack of farming, where the owners would have removed the grasses. And part of this, not in my reading, may have been water, or other land issues. I would also assume with the pineapple fields also went jobs (lower income jobs).

So to me I wonder where the pineapples that were grown there, are now coming from?

 

[3DDave]

Costa Rica, Phillipines, Netherlands, USA were the top 4 in 2021 per

https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/co...op exporters of,50,572.94K , 100,197,000 Kg).

The grass was imported to feed cattle, but escaped those farms. It grows faster than the native plants, replacing them.

Little different than when mining firms abandon toxic tailings along waterways. Capitalism at its finest.

Edit: By 2023, Costa Rica isn't on the charts anymore.

 

[cranky108]

If that's the case, why not raze cattle or sheep to keep the grass down?

 

[TugboatEng]

I think part Hawaii's problem is that everyone wants to work in the much more lucrative tourism industry. That same tourism industry is also working hard to keep others industries out.

FWIW, I spent an internship ferrying year old calves from Hawaii to California. I don't know why they did that. They were being brought to California to be fattened up to be sold as Wagyu beef. That was a stinky run.

 

[3DDave]

There may not be enough water available to keep the cattle alive. Look at the amount of water diverted to hotel rooms, hotel lawns, and hotel pools.

 

[waross]

There may not be enough water available to keep the cattle alive.

Back in the late 50's, our neighbour, who was a research scientist working for the Canadian Government, mentioned to me that eventually there would not be enough rainfall world wide to support the projected increase in beef consumption at 1950's consumption rates.
It takes a lot more water to raise a pound of beef than to raise a pound of grain.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[3DDave]

On Maui the ranches seem to be mainly on the wetter side:

Several of these are horse ranches.

 

[waross]

On Maui the ranches seem to be mainly on the wetter side:

THat tracks.
Here, in Ranching country we have had a very dry years.
A friend was complaining that he has 1000 acres of grass that has not grown enough to cut and bale hay.
It looks like this coming winter will be expensive to buy hay for the horses.
I have been planning on haying the ditches, but:
We haven't been getting enough rain for the grass to grow properly, but there has been just enough showers to delay haying.
After cutting, the hay should dry for a couple of days before baling or it may rot in the bale.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[1503-44]

Fire tornado

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/weather/2023/08/23/fire-tornado-wildfires-canada-cprog-orig-af.cnn

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[dik]

Action filed:

"Maui County is suing energy firm Hawaiian Electric, saying it failed to turn off electric equipment before wildfires started on the island.

If power lines had been switched off during exceptionally high winds and dry conditions, the destruction could have been avoided, the lawsuit said.

The Lahaina fire killed 115 and more than 1,000 people are still missing..

The company says it is disappointed the county chose to sue while the fire investigation was ongoing.

Witnesses say they saw sparks from power lines which ignited fires after utility poles were damaged by winds, caused by a passing hurricane."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66612483

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JohnRBaker]

With that mind:

Maui utility may have compromised evidence in fire probe, lawyers say

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...vidence-in-fire-probe-lawyers-say/ar-AA1fJrT6

An excerpt from the above item:

The Hawaii power utility believed to have started the deadly Lahaina fire removed damaged power poles and other equipment from a key fire scene, potentially affecting evidence that is part of an official investigation into how the blaze ignited.

Hawaiian Electric — which acted quickly to restore power on the island after Aug. 8 — hauled away fallen poles, power lines, transformers, conductors and other equipment from near a Lahaina substation starting around Aug. 12, documents show, before investigators from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) arrived on scen

Those actions may have violated national guidelines on how utilities should handle and preserve evidence after a wildfire and deprives investigators the opportunity to view any poles or downed lines in an undisturbed condition before or after the fire started, according to court documents, letters and other records obtained by The Washington Post.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[cranky108]

So what about the tall grasses that should have been cut? What about the lack of water?
Maybe those were side issues the contributed to the severity.

So could people also sew the county?

 

[3DDave]

That video is explicable - they don't have any idea what they are talking about.

 

[dik]

looked at the video... and concur. It's surprising that anyone would suggest the video having any merit.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Eh, the Hawaiian government isn't doing much to help anything. Their refusal to release information breeds speculation. Of course investigations of cause will take time. However, continuing to claim 100 are dead when 1000 are missing (on an island) is a slap in the face to the residents.

 

[enginesrus]

It is what they say about the news cameras not allowed in certain areas? And the comments below (so others think there is merit). Even from a former firefighter.
This is one of many such burned out cars incidents that are no where near anything that would cause them to be destroyed.
Just remember the Italians in the other video posted above.

 

[3DDave]

The FBI list was down to 388 and about 100 came forward - not sure which was first, though the list may have seen additions.

Aluminum melting in a gasoline fueled fire is not remarkable.