United Flight from Denver to Hawaii blows engine on takeoff 12

[magoo2]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-makes-emergency-landing-dropping-debris.html

Flight was able to land in Denver. No injuries reported. It was a Boeing 777.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

NTSB have declared it a contained engine failure.... Which might seem a bit of a meaningless statement but it makes a huge difference to the aircraft being returned to service which can now be just inspection and sign and flying again. If it was uncontained then there would have had to have been weeks of analysis and then a mod.

 

[dik]

Thanks AH... didn't realise there was a distinction.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Its a colossal distinction. The certification test for it involves killing an engine.

I posted this link previously

https://youtu.be/5-8_Gnbp2JA

Here is some more for interest

https://youtu.be/wcALjMJbAvU

And the new GE engine doing icing tests. This one got killed later doing the fan blade failure. Its very rare they actually release the video of the fan blade tests. I am told that because its usually quiet explosive with cowls etc going everywhere and compressor/turbine disks banging out the side. But as long as the fan blade stays inside it passes.

https://youtu.be/YuW6hhKype4

This one on an A330 it also spat disks and did quiet a bit of damage to the wing. The runway at Manchester is long so they won't have been at max N1.

https://youtu.be/PS1YAX70edc

 

[hokie66]

A couple of good photos here, showing the broken hollow blades.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...-damaged-engine-after-flight-2021-2?r=US&IR=T

 

[Cool_Controls]

Something was not contained based on the hole in the fuselage.
Link

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

That's where the differences in opinion come from in this thread about what the certification requirements are.

I believe that its only the fan that needs to stay inside the carcass. And cowls and compressor disks it is normal that they exit as they so wish. And in my experience it is normal for damage to occur to the wing and hull near the engine. The control lines etc are meant to be split and routed so there isn't a single point of failure. To note this doesn't apply to the 737 series because of grandfather certification rules means its design to 1960 standards.

These rules came in after the Sioux City crash of United 232.

Here is the accident report from it.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/12/12/ntsb.report.united.232.pdf

That accident features a lot in our training and also caused major changes in the certification standards.

That section is what's called aero fairing and isn't pressurised. Its likely to be cowling that's been blown off or the cowl icing system that came off with the big ring bit. If it had been a disk part from the compressor sections there would be a hole coming out the other side.

 

[SWComposites]

Nope, nacelles are required to sustain predicted fan blade off loads.

And the damage to the underside of the aircraft was to the wing-to-body fairings, not to the fuselage pressure shell.

 

[TugboatEng]

That A330 video was very neat, Alistair. I showed my wife, she's not impressed. We're flying in a week.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

From what I could see it was a text book high speed abort. Nicely controlled. And Manchester air traffic and airport services at their normal high standards. To note that was a compressor blade going not a fan blade.

Safe flight and clear sky's for your trip

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Seems Boeing were in the process of redesigning the cowls etc starting in 2018. As there had been 7 incidents of debris falling off.

Japan has just banned PW4000-94 engine aircraft as well. Which for those of you that use air freight is going to cause you problems as they are used on 747's and MD11's I think.

I think that's linked to the 747 engine failure in the Netherlands.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle...juring-two-people/ar-BB1dTWWT?MSCC=1603445899

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

NTSB have released a further up date with some nice pictures of the failure surfaces.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA21FA085.aspx

 

[TugboatEng]

Im curious about the meaning of flight cycles. Is that takeoffs and landings or accelerations a decelerations? I ask because I've been on some flights where there are many accelerations and decelerations during landing (and sometimes during takeoff when flying over wealthy neighborhoods). On ships we will sometimes get a nervous "pilot" who requires 20 engine reversals to do the same thing the other pilots do in 5 or 6. Luckily, our engines aren't fatigue limited, even the aero-derivative units.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

There is a few definitions depending which log book your looking at. The Engines will each have a log book and also the APU and the airframe. And landing gear. And each propeller on turboprops.

Engines its start cycles and take offs. Airframes its pressurisation cycles.

In this context I presume they mean take off's which is the max stress period. Although to be honest when We take off on a big runway or low weight we actually use less power than we cruise with.

In the olds days the pilots used to have to report what we had been doing with them and any exceedances. These days the engines each have a brain and are linked to the aircraft health system which gets downloaded every couple of days and sent to an engine monitoring specialist which is linked to the continuing airworthiness management organisation more commonly referred to as CAMO.

Any miss use or abuse or outside SOP's will be pulled inside 3 days after the flight where I am. Certain people are sometimes pulled into the training centre and sim and re-educated apparently. I have only ever heard about it third hand and it doesn't happen very often. Its usually a new join direct entry Captain who is trying to impose their theory's on a new company. But occasionally its an upgrade who is suffering from RPA.

 

[Lou Scannon]

RPA?

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Recently Promoted Arsehole.

It takes about 6-12 months for some new Captains to settle into the role and not think they are gods. And actually the Captains that prevented them doing certain things in the past actually knew what they were talking about.

 

[LittleInch]

Robotic Process Automation?, but knowing Alistair probably stands for Royal Pain in the Arse...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[LittleInch]

I wasn't far away....


Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

They turn into your definition if they haven't sorted themselves out in 12 months.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Several passengers onboard the flight have hired Clifford Law Offices, an aviation lawyer in Chicago, after suffering “severe post-traumatic stress disorder”, the legal firm said in a statement.

“The passengers on this flight thought it was going to be their last,” said Robert A. Clifford, founder and senior partner at Clifford Law Offices.

“Imagine as a passenger looking out the window of a plane and helplessly watching the engine on fire. The terror you experience lasts a lifetime.”

It should be their last ever trip on any for of public transport. Be it Air, sea of road transport. They can walk

 

[1503-44]

They're probably just taking up Clifford's hand written invitation to sue for no win, no fee service.