Nepal air crash 2

[LittleInch]

Air crash in Nepal.

A bit down this link is a few seconds showing a severe wing dip and from eye witnesses the plane rolled.

Doesn't seem to have a lot of flap on and apprentice the co pilot only had 100 hrs.

New airport.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ourning-announced-as-recovery-effort-restarts

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[Alistair_Heaton]

No its just giving you the ability to demand full power if required. The prop governor just maintains the prop speed by altering the angle. If you put fuel in that will cause the engine to accelerate and the prop pitch controller to coarsen the pitch which will develop more torque and also push more air through it, and bring the rpm back to the required value.

It is similar to marine a feathered prop will create huge amounts of torque if driven because its basically trying to stir the air with the flat side of a plank of wood.
Put it at an angle and it will corkscrew its way through the air pushing it to the rear.

We can and do run them in negative angles called the beta range which pushes the air forward to give reverse thrust.

 

[LittleInch]

I've been in a turbo prop which has reversed back up the runway to get max take off length before now (Sumburgh cough)

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

And I have done it many a time reversing off stand its called powerback.

 

[LittleInch]

Well if the planes system decided to feather both props or the pilots got confused at low altitude coming into a new airport and the same thing happened as noted in your link above then it's not good news.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

As the fleet is so large we shall wait and see what comes out.

If it was something technical there would be something already released to all operators by the OEM.

 

[SWComposites]

new report out today:

https://avherald.com/h?article=503c63e9&opt=0

looks like both props were feathered.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

if you look at the pic above the white lever on the right is the flap lever.

They have different shaped knobs on the top and different ways of moving them as standard across all turbo prop types in the west compared to the condition levers

 

[Pud]

All explained. Maybe:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...1?shareToken=fe4e47c619e8bd51dca80fa7649bc5fe

Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.

 

[enginesrus]

Alistair_Heaton (Mechanical),

I never did multi engine. I way prefer the old stuff, except I can sure see how combined synthetic vision with something like FLIR, and SAR, would be a huge help in preventing any sort of disorientation crashes and literally give all Instrument conditions pilots VFR to the max, especially combined with altitude encoding transponders as well as the TCAS.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I have never used the synthetic vision stuff or a HUD apart from playing with it in a SIM.

I am sure it does. We are banned from operating VFR. Truth be told operating on instruments once you get the hang of it is less work load than visually.

The new stuff efis and ECAS does have lots of advantages compared to "steam" instruments. But like you if I was pleasure flying VFR I wouldn't want it.

 

[enginesrus]

I'm not saying to operate VFR, I'm saying in a case of spacial disorientation, like the aircraft spinning out of control on a dark cloudy night, you would be seeing literal VFR conditions, only of course artificial on the screen in front of you. This would have even prevented that medivac accident if that was the cause. Also there is no excuse not to have the cirrus plane type parachutes in some planes.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

no problem its a concept thing between visual flying and instrument flying which takes a while to get your head round when you first start flying on instruments.

It removes the seat of the pants disorientation. And conflict between visual Q's and what the aircraft is actually doing.

There has been a colossal push in the last 15 years with commercial pilots about this. There is now mandatory pre first job and every 6 months in the sim with unusual attitudes.

The human body is not very good at processing artificial G forces which are not instinctive gravitational ones.

You have to convince yourself that the only true information about the actual state of the aircraft is what the instruments are telling you. Ignore what your ears are telling you and what your bum is feeling and put it in the attitude you want. When you try and combine data input into your mental model for most of us it just overloads us. Plus there are multiple visual Q's which can confuse us with ground gradients, clouds, lights other aircraft etc. So its best to just stick with what the plane instruments are telling us.

Power plus pitch equals performance.

So to me its relatively logical dealing with, Put the plane attitude where you want it and check and set your power confirmed by the instruments and then wait for thrust and drag to sort the rest out. But some pilots don't think like this.

Turboprop constant speed props, nose high or nose low? then it was wings level, no yaw, condition levers forward as a start. Nose high power levers forward, nose low power levers back... Set 3 degs nose pitch attitude and wait, once the airspeed is in the normal range power levers back to cruise setting.

Jet is basically the same apart from disconnect the auto thrust while your figuring out nose high or low. No condition levers to worry about and then spoilers out if nose low.

 

[enginesrus]

Instruments are fine, I was pretty good with them. I have also been in many spins, the instruments are not very good in a spin. And many times on that air disasters show they show airline pilots incapable knowing the attitude of their planes especially when they end up upside down and inverted. This is where a synthetic vision would shine, as well as in mountainous terrain, and non precision airports. Its a win win for all aircraft.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The hud falls over the same as normal instruments in unusual attitudes.

I have never used synthetic vision.

The real plus coming in is AR GNSS approaches in mountainous areas. This is a GPS approach which allows curved approach so you wind your way through mountains.

It is a 3D approach without any requirement for ground hardware.

And requires very little continuous maint of skills doing them which is most of the issue with unusual attitudes. Its just like flying an ILS or any other RNP approach. I love them.

Like you I have done many spins in a piper tomahawk. The sims just can't go more than 70 deg bank and +- 50 deg pitch.