New start material strenght calculation for operating horn from crashed plane. Part 2 4

[RedSnake]

Can anyone help me check if this calculation works so far?
There are so many conversions between different units ..
The calculation is made by a free software but I assume that their calculation models are correct.

My own assumption is that the elevator is heavier at the front edge as there are hinges made of MIL 1430 N and since the lever and its attachment also are , there are also steel details on the other side and the rest is aluminum.
I have chosen to see it as a simple bar to begin with.

And the calculation is made to check which load the fixed joint must withstand for the elevator's own weight.

I intend to present it in steps so if I got something wrong I can adjust it before the next step.
If it's okay with you people?

Best regards Anna

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

zero issues with you my love... stop thinking too much we are mates here I might be qualified captain of an aircraft but absolutely everyone posting an opinion on the thread has a valid opinion and discussion point.

It won't change my day to day SOP's so don't worry about that.

Me lighting the fire in my personal none aviation holiday home.... I will do it however I decide

You have nudged me towards the way I wanted to do it anyway with the main distribution board.

I am happy with life and these discussions... If you tell me how to operate aircraft then my tone may change as it currently stands, please continue being Anna.

Who i am more than willing to spend time and effort answering her questions to the best of my ability

 

[RedSnake]

I just wanted to check to be sure.
I thought I understood it right ;-)

We do not learn all those special expressions in school, only proper British English, and on TV it's mostly American.
But I like British detective series, but then it's mostly Oxford English ..
Vera is probably the best but it's probably still a bit of a polished English.

I actually have a degree in International Business English from Stuttgart of all places ?!
But it's ages ago.
There they taught us how to understand Indians who spoke English and Germans and Africans and all sorts.
But mostly how to write and show ones dissatisfaction with the supplier when they did not deliver
Hopefully yours !!, instead of .. Yours truly .. LOL

So, yours truly, signing off for bed.


“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I am an old porridge wog sorry....... Have been speaking international English though for 12 years.

 

[RedSnake]

All hell has broken out at work, they have gone completely crazy ...
We are going to replace some engine drives in a machine, so we are writing a RFQ reguest for qoutation.
First it would be ready week 18, yesterday morning week 2 and yesterday afternoon before Christmas ...
So now it will be a lot of overtime for me.. :-(

Actually The world champions in the Golden Spurtle – World Porridge Making Championship are Swedes. LOL
So we know somthing about porridge as well.
So it's okey to be a old porridge wog

I hope everthing goes to plan with your electrcal installation.

Best Regards Anna

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[RedSnake]

I do it the old fashioned way, mostly because it's good training, if I would get lost in the woods or something
(which of course would not happen as I have a pretty good local sense)

But this is the reason why.. LOL

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[RedSnake]

I have to take this in steps and start from the beginning.
I have a bit of a hard time putting together a complete explanation, all at once.
It takes too long ..
And should any of my assumptions be wrong somewhere along the line, everything falls like a house of cards.
In this way, I can reevaluate my theories along the way.

To begin with, the lever for the elevator is made of 2, 90 degree bent cold-rolled sheets approx 1 mm.
That are welded together, in the red-marked corners.
The bad weld is marked between the blue lines.
In the material report, it has been established by X-ray that the weld is just as bad all the way down to the attachment for the push rod on both sides.
The weld defect will reduce the load carrying ability and the stiffness of the elevator operating horn.

This picture bellow is just an example I created to make it easier to explain, so it does not look like this in reality.

But if a square profile like this was fixed at the bottom and you would pull with more force in the right front corner than in the left (see the red arrows) then the profile should be more like a rhomb since the green areas have more stiffness and the week parts are the welded cornes, or?

BE A




“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

This sort of problem is suited to finite element analysis.

In my day we all had copies of this 30 years ago.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Roarks-Formulas-Stress-Strain-Warren/dp/007072542X

I would send you my copy but its in the loft in Scotland and no way of getting it.

But these days they wouldn't touch it with Roarks. They would just produce a 3d model of it using pro-engineer or similar and then import it into the FEA. Gone are the days of producing ascii input decks.

The local uni might be willing to give you a student ANSYS license key. I only say ANSYS because that's what I was using. A static linear model will be relatively easy to produce. But if you want to model the failure then you will be into none linear materials and geometry which will very quickly ramp up your hardware and disk requirements. Although these days disk and computer power isn't as limiting as it was in my day.

 

[RedSnake]

I have asked a colleague at work if he could set up a simpler model, but I have not bothered him with it anymore though.
I could probably ask for some software from the company's software server, but my boss might be wondering what I would do with it, especially if it costs money.
Would certainly take me an eternity to learn how it works. :-(

BTW in the sim we got the examiner to suddenly shift the CoG outside the envelope to the rear.
Did you ask for it yourself to see what would happen?

So did you get any electrical DIY done?
If not, I understand you.
I would not have done it myself, this time of year.
When I did it in the spring in the summer cottage, it was plus degrees outside.
Still I needed to make a fire in the fireplace, because the fingers gets cold, as icicles after a while, so I needed to warm my hands.
It's hard to have the heat on when the power is turned off, and the power central is completely disassembled .. LOL
But I was at least prepared with a rechargeable LED lamp

Best Regards Anna



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[RedSnake]

You had lost me there for a while, I did not know you had gone to a training session.

The only funny thing that happened to me this week is that I wrote an explanation of how we should reuse existing tool data when replacing some machine parts on English, 2 pages A4 .
Then when I had done that, they thought it was too advanced to show to the technology management at the factory? !!
So then I had to write a new on in Swedish 1 page, (Explanation for "dummies").
Then they came back and said that it was magically well described. LOL

But the really fun thing that happened was that I went to the store one day after work and when I came back I saw something on the balcony railing.
I live on the second floor and have my own balcony outside the entrance door.
I had not turn on the light so it was a bit dark.
I thought it was a great tit or blue tit.
I have a bird table that hangs in a chain from the ceiling that I usually have peanuts in.
But then I see that it is a house mouse?!?
And it was not particularly scared of me it climbed down on a chair and sat there staring at me.

Sounds like your week was a lot more fun ..

MVH Anna


“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

We go into the sim for 2 days of 4 hours each day every 6 months. We were 2 experienced crew who both think the same when it comes to dealing with situations. So the syllabus timings were way out as we were already outside drinking coffee with the smoke removal fans going full blast by the time we were meant to be taking off for the first exercise.

When that happens at the end you just hear from the back "right boys that's everything done we have 40 mins left what do you want to see or do?" and as neither of us are the type for flying at 20ft under london bridge or checkerboard approach in kai tak or trying to get the fastest circuit I asked what CoG ranges we had to play with. And we had a shot with it. The examiner got quite interested in it as well and chucked one of us out our seats to have a try with the flight control computers off line. It was actually quiet interesting and worth while training for everyone involved as its not in the normal syllabus. But in theory could occur with cargo shift in a limited fashion or everyone runs to the back of the aircraft. It came into my head because of this discussion. CoG outside rear is not something I have been trained for or experienced.

No I have not done the wiring, there is to many kids about to be concentrating which phase is going where and getting asked every 10mins why the TV isn't working.

I have been having issues with my computer network in the house after power cuts, so I have reconfigured that and put a UPS 54V power supply in which powers the POE switches for the router and AP's and set up a subnet for all the smart devices. The UPS uses a 12V lead acid battery and takes 3 days to do its charge/discharge calibration Once its finished I will throw the main breaker as we go out the house for a walk to give it a proper test. Its showing 1 day 4 hours with a manual input of 60Ah battery attached which is 3 times the length of our normal power outages.

 

[RedSnake]

UPS 54V

Strange voltage level?
How is it that?
Is it 54 VDC in 12 VDC out?

I would happily make an electrical circuit diagram for you if you like (and now I am not teased).
That's the least I can do for you if nothing else.

We had a pretty heated debate about UPS:es in the project
The project manager wants them, but we say NO!
Probably mostly due to different experience.
In his departments, they have had problems with things which has broken during power outages and long start-up times.
In our department, we have never had any problems with the above.
Just with disturbances from the UPS:es that causes the plant to stop with downtime as a result.
Maybe not quite the same as at home, but just as annoying when it happens.

Regarding power outages, we actually had a mouse incident once at work.
We had bought a scrap pess during the installation, we saw a mouse in the electrical cabinet.
We think it was a German mouse.
A few weeks later, the main fuse tripped and the mouse lay stone dead on top of the incoming busbars.
A little strange though that such things do not happen more often .. they can get in almost everywhere.

The local uni might be willing to give you a student ANSYS license key. I only say ANSYS because that's what I was using.

We actually have ANSYS that I could request don't know if I will get it though, can be a bit of hassel explaining why I need it.
And something called Altair Simlab and Mathworks Matlab 2018b English (US)

/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Just tell the truth. if the license isn't being used 24h. its off a floating license server, so you couldn't use it when real work was being done. you could also say you thinking about using it for heat transfer analysis.

I don't have a clue how the UPS works. Its main plus point was that it could take a 12V lead car battery and has a BMS in it which looks after its charging and discharging.

We used to UPS all the time on the computers when I worked in Engineering. But they were expensive and batteries were a pain. This thing was 100 euro and I used my 18v battery pack fixing welding battery/the ride on lawn cutter needs a jumpstart battery, 12V 60Ah car battery . To be honest a mate who still works in IT is away off to get its big brother for work to try it out.

The two poe switches which run the router with DHCP VPN etc and the AP's between them only pull 20W and one camera which pulls 8w all the rest I don't care it it comes off line. Everything will come back online if the AP's and router are happy in seconds. I have stuck a AP down in the cellar as well with its own SSID and got rid of the ip over powerline wifi extender.

 

[RedSnake]

Just tell the truth. if the license isn't being used 24h.
I would not have much of a choice in that regard.
My boss is one of the few at work who knows what's going on in my head.
She would understand the minute I ask, why I did.
Then I'm almost incapable of lying, so not so much of a chance there either LOL

I have an open client computer at work so I can download which ever programs I want from the web to.
In my youth I was a real data hacker but nowadays I just want my computer to work.
And that someone else makes sure it is working. ;-)
I have looked a bit at some freewares but it seems they need so many added programs and the right versions of everything for it to work, so we'll see ..

I don't have a clue how the UPS works. Its main plus point was that it could take a 12V lead car battery and has a BMS in it which looks after its charging and discharging.

Usually they feel that the incoming voltage falls below a certain level then they plug in the battery and disconnects the mains voltage.
The when the mains voltage is ok vice versa , and the battery is charged as much as needed.
But the ones we have at work is 230VAC in and out or 24 VDC > 24 VDC, fairly common industry standard.
Not for homes though, cost about 300EUR.

But a normal router for home use is normally 230VDC, so do you have a different supply voltage in your house?

My partner used to connect his motorcycle battery to his pellet stove in the winters with just a normal battery charger to the 240 VAC outlet, nothing more, it kept it running during most power outages. And the battery was always okay in the spring when it would be returned to the motorcycle.

But it depends on what your gadgets need for supply voltage.

Best regards Anna



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

its 230V single phase plugged in normally but with a 12V wet battery hanging off it. When AC goes down it uses the battery as the energy source.

After a power cut it recharges the battery..

HAs 2 POE AX ports but they are only 100Mps and the network is Giga so I am just going to power the POE giga switches off the 54V output which is normal for them.

Quite impressed with it to be honest

How it turns 12V into 54 V and the other voltages that are required for POE I have no clue. It was pretty much plug in play apart from attaching the battery. Those 54V switch power supplies are not cheap anyway. So I 2 spare of them now to boot. 160 euro including the battery which I use for other things off and on anyway but normally its just sitting there doing nothing is a reasonable enough price.

 

[RedSnake]

Okay I had a bit of a hard time understanding this with 54 VDC .. not any ordinary voltage out there.
But you have it for your E... Point routers and switches and not to the whole house?
It seems to me that you have the situation under control

Maybe you should delete/remove that image.
So that I do not hack into your ip address!
Who knows, what damage I could do. ;-)

/Anna

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

yes just want the router and wifi access points to stay up.

54V DC is quite a normal voltage for supplies to decent networking gear.

I have everything wired with cat6 POE+ cable it makes life very easy with IP cameras and control tablets in the wall etc.

 

[RedSnake]

Maybe you should delete/remove that image.
So that I do not hack into your ip address!
Who knows, what damage I could do.

At work we use cat7 for real internet, but in our machines buses it is enough with cat5.
Most things run on ethernet nowadays, it is just the protocols that are a bit diffrent in the machines, more and better timpstamping and handshaking going on.

/Anna

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

its not a real one its my home network inside the firewall.

Most home networks run in that 192.168.1.x subnet. Then the router which is 192.168.1.1 acts as the gateway to the outside world.

This is all ethernet as well. But there is a power over ethernet standard 802.33af which you can power things up to 30 watts. There is a few grades above that.

I just make sure everything is to that standard that I plug into it. Quite how it deals with 54V to a 5V/9V/12v/24v devices (i have the full range of POE devices with the various dc voltage power packs which i have as spares) I don't know. I was told not to touch the passive POE switch's and that seems to have worked so far.

It a started with getting a roof mounted LTE router which is POE and then the security cameras.

Haven't blown anything up yet and everything is working 24 months after I started plugging stuff into that network. Just funny things started happening after power cuts and the network crashed if the AP's cam online before the router which I think is something to do with IP crashes with a wireline extender. Reconfigured everything and put that UPS in so fingers crossed it will be stable now.

 

[RedSnake]

Yes I thought I recognized it

Reconfigured everything and put that UPS in so fingers crossed it will be stable now.

It probable will

If not, there is a cheap trick we have used sometimes, it may not be so easy to implement at a home facility, but at the factory it works well.
No hundred percent safe solution to all problems, but most.
We put in a on delay timer which is triggered by mains voltage, we did it on a PLC:s power feed, because it started up too fast compared to another device.
It also makes sure that the electricity grid has time to become stabilized before it starts up.
If the voltage drops after coming back the timer has to restart again.
When the power comes back and many loads connected to the grid are to be started, there can be a lot of "sway" on the electricity grid, the voltage goes up and down.
Not so good for some sensitive devices.
This is usually what causes appliances to break, in the event of a power failure.

But your UPS has probably the same function so you should be good..

BR Anna




“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Two hour power cut... It worked