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oil leak gulf of mexico 5
- Thread starter CH5OH
- Start date
It seems like top kill start was delayed. Might it have been because of those waves in your pictures? I've been out there in a 180 ft workboat in similar conditions and it ain't no fun putting our back up against the netting and locking our feet against the wall trying to get some sleep.. well actually it is for the first couple of days ... then Ernest Borgnine sticks his head up the hatch and &*(^&*^%(*
"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying." Tony Hayward CEO, BP
**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying." Tony Hayward CEO, BP
**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
[Just a clarification, I think TGordon15 is basically talking about a new adequately high pressure/port rated shut-off valve mounted on a plate on the top middle of the inner vessel of the potentially positive large steel capping contraption (not necessarily a "new BOP"), that would be in the "open" position tominimize upward pressure thrust when the double-walled cap is slid down over but not necessarily at all touching the existing riser/BOP, then to be closed for positive shut-off of everything after the vacuum is drawn on the outer annulus, driving the whole thing very strongly into the seabed. And of course the vacuum would have to be maintained on the much larger area outer annulus, and everything designed for adequate, long-term buckling resistance once the vacuum drawn. Of course this is all dependednt on thembeing able to successfully cut off the damaged riser above the BOP!]
- Moderator
- #65
These were taken when a squall line was passing through the area just after the incident. The rough seas can last for about one hour then it can become quite calm. The water spouts are quite common during the spring, summer, and fall and it's not uncommon to see multiples. The most I've seen at one time was 13 on three different squall lines during a time when a cold front was passing through. The sea state can be like this for several days when a slow moving cold front comes through.
It is not uncommon to get 10 ft waves when low pressure systems pass through and we get a couple of days of steady winds from one direction.
They are probably starting to get some heavy seas as there is a low pressure area over around Houston that can build some nice waves from the Southwest.
aBad for us as it driven the oil towards us.
It is not uncommon to get 10 ft waves when low pressure systems pass through and we get a couple of days of steady winds from one direction.
They are probably starting to get some heavy seas as there is a low pressure area over around Houston that can build some nice waves from the Southwest.
aBad for us as it driven the oil towards us.
- Thread starter
- #68
rconner,
the vacuumanchors used work very well, when pulling force is aplied to them, somewhat in a horizontal plane (like an anchor supposed to do).
the proposed construction would require a very long pipe (since the force would be in the vertical plane).probably sucking the pipe down, wouldn't be possible (if the pipe get stucked, it will collapse under the water pressure)
the vacuumanchors used work very well, when pulling force is aplied to them, somewhat in a horizontal plane (like an anchor supposed to do).
the proposed construction would require a very long pipe (since the force would be in the vertical plane).probably sucking the pipe down, wouldn't be possible (if the pipe get stucked, it will collapse under the water pressure)
- Moderator
- #70
That's what I thought you meant.
A couple of negative suggestions;
The area of the negative pressure section should be about 10 times or more the area of the well pressure section to avoid being lifted by well pressure should hydrates plug the discharge or the pressure of expanding gas bubbles raise the dynamic pressure in the well section.
The outer shell must be able to withstand over 2000 psi, the well section may have to withstand 20,000 psi. Then add safety factors. Ops, forgot, this is bp, no safety factors needed.
Until a day or so ago, the riser with the drill pipe inside was in the way.
but if they don't get the top hat working your suggestion may be the next solution.
With a pressure difference of about 15,000 psi more or less between the well section and the vacuum section, any back pressure may just blow the mud in the well section down under the divider and into the vacuum section.
15,000 psi is over two million pounds per square foot. That will move a lot of sea bed mud.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
A couple of negative suggestions;
The area of the negative pressure section should be about 10 times or more the area of the well pressure section to avoid being lifted by well pressure should hydrates plug the discharge or the pressure of expanding gas bubbles raise the dynamic pressure in the well section.
The outer shell must be able to withstand over 2000 psi, the well section may have to withstand 20,000 psi. Then add safety factors. Ops, forgot, this is bp, no safety factors needed.
Until a day or so ago, the riser with the drill pipe inside was in the way.
but if they don't get the top hat working your suggestion may be the next solution.
With a pressure difference of about 15,000 psi more or less between the well section and the vacuum section, any back pressure may just blow the mud in the well section down under the divider and into the vacuum section.
15,000 psi is over two million pounds per square foot. That will move a lot of sea bed mud.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
Just heard that they have bringing two ships closer and are going to do some re piping to get a better recovery rate.
I believe that 1000 bbls a day is all they can handle safely so it call for a regroup. They did report a higher number for a twelve hour peroid but there were concerns.
Here is a link that carries all twelve feeds and will work with Windows Media Player.
I believe that some of links that are down belong to ships that are moving.
I believe that 1000 bbls a day is all they can handle safely so it call for a regroup. They did report a higher number for a twelve hour peroid but there were concerns.
Here is a link that carries all twelve feeds and will work with Windows Media Player.
I believe that some of links that are down belong to ships that are moving.
MikeHalloran
Mechanical
Without meaning any undeserved disrespect, BP sure keeps coming up with fixes that don't actually work, or at least don't work as well when executed as they sound when proposed.
A reasonable observer might suspect that perhaps they don't really know what they're doing, and are all just basically, er, passing gas.
Most recently, they've spent some days just getting hold of a relatively stable flange, and not quite attaching a pipe to it.
The next, 'sure fire' step scares me a bit. Drilling into the ground under the gulf and piercing a pipe full of high pressure flammables, and sealing a joint that they can't see, or access externally? Yeah, I know they say they've done it before. They said they had done the other stuff before, too.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
A reasonable observer might suspect that perhaps they don't really know what they're doing, and are all just basically, er, passing gas.
Most recently, they've spent some days just getting hold of a relatively stable flange, and not quite attaching a pipe to it.
The next, 'sure fire' step scares me a bit. Drilling into the ground under the gulf and piercing a pipe full of high pressure flammables, and sealing a joint that they can't see, or access externally? Yeah, I know they say they've done it before. They said they had done the other stuff before, too.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
- Thread starter
- #73
Tgordon15, Ok I now understand the proposed installation,
as warros pointed out, the thickness of required plating and sealing between pressure and vacuum part might be not feasable.
for sealing of the leak three difficulties to overcome:
1.the depth
2.the pressure of the well
3.the energy being present in the oil flow, between well and reservoir (chock wave)
nr1 and nr2, deep sea exploitation has given human kind a certain level of expertise.
nr3 would be the most difficult one to overcome and in normal circumstances, the shut of device would be in place before a flow is present.However, current events show this device needs to be redesigned as it seems to be the only disaster recovery plan being used in deep sea exploitation.from an economical point of vieuw not stopping the flow, but bring it to the surface (load it into tankers,while flairing of the gas)might be the best choice to deal with nr3 and with the numurous damage claims.
so far BP has managed,I believe, to separate the debris from the well...
human kind in all his glory, with its intelligence as only weapon to endeveour its stupidity.would it be the right time to invest monney in tunafish?
as warros pointed out, the thickness of required plating and sealing between pressure and vacuum part might be not feasable.
for sealing of the leak three difficulties to overcome:
1.the depth
2.the pressure of the well
3.the energy being present in the oil flow, between well and reservoir (chock wave)
nr1 and nr2, deep sea exploitation has given human kind a certain level of expertise.
nr3 would be the most difficult one to overcome and in normal circumstances, the shut of device would be in place before a flow is present.However, current events show this device needs to be redesigned as it seems to be the only disaster recovery plan being used in deep sea exploitation.from an economical point of vieuw not stopping the flow, but bring it to the surface (load it into tankers,while flairing of the gas)might be the best choice to deal with nr3 and with the numurous damage claims.
so far BP has managed,I believe, to separate the debris from the well...
human kind in all his glory, with its intelligence as only weapon to endeveour its stupidity.would it be the right time to invest monney in tunafish?
- Moderator
- #74
Please take this as more of a question than a suggestion.
I have been wondering about the construction of the BOP. Is there no place that a hydraulic line to a set of shears is accessible?
It does not seem that it would be that difficult to squeeze off a hydraulic line to prevent back flow and then then pierce it and introduce enough hydraulic oil so that the shear can compete its stroke and close the well as it would have had not the available pressure been depleted when the cement crew unknowingly tried to close the damaged annular device.
Are BOPs constructed so that the hydraulic lines to the shears are inaccessible?
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
I have been wondering about the construction of the BOP. Is there no place that a hydraulic line to a set of shears is accessible?
It does not seem that it would be that difficult to squeeze off a hydraulic line to prevent back flow and then then pierce it and introduce enough hydraulic oil so that the shear can compete its stroke and close the well as it would have had not the available pressure been depleted when the cement crew unknowingly tried to close the damaged annular device.
Are BOPs constructed so that the hydraulic lines to the shears are inaccessible?
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
The bottom kill by relief well is almost a true and tried solution to a blow out. the will use the highest weight mud available some where near 18 lbs/gal vs the oil at about 8.5 lbs/gal. On top of this they will add a cement plug of sufficient weight to hold the whole thing in place. It might take several attempts to hit the well bore, it has taken up to seven. Probably the biggest worry is that the lower casing has been compromise and the cement liner has also been compromised. After all this they will take the BOP off and plug the casing in the upper section or they could cement the all the way to bottom plug.
Even though they exerted some very high pressure during the top kill event they are scared that they will compromise the casing and thus the well bore. In such and event they could have though the floor surrounding the well. This would be very very bad. One other point if the cement liner in the upper section has been compromised increase the pressure at the top could possibly jack up the casing and BOP all in one piece.
We now have oil on the beaches at Pensacola and Navarre. The beaches are closing.
Even though they exerted some very high pressure during the top kill event they are scared that they will compromise the casing and thus the well bore. In such and event they could have though the floor surrounding the well. This would be very very bad. One other point if the cement liner in the upper section has been compromised increase the pressure at the top could possibly jack up the casing and BOP all in one piece.
We now have oil on the beaches at Pensacola and Navarre. The beaches are closing.
The linked drawing provided is basically what I understood. While this would no doubt be quite an Engineering and fabrication undertaking, If the principle were to work, this very large and no doubt in practice heavy type cap could have an advantage of maybe intercepting not only that oil we all see on the clips coming out of the cut-off riser BOP, but maybe also some that might be seeping inside the larger 36"? casing on the seabed, or maybe even some distance outside same through the soil (by the inner containment vessel, recovery piping extending from the top of the shut-off valve, or even outer vaccum drawing or internal pressure relieving annulus/vacuum piping). I believe there are folks, however, who could quite readily fabricate steel tubes and reinforcements many meters/feet in diameter with even many inches thick walls, and welded together as high as necessary to clear.
Talking to a fishing buddy who also happens to be an attorney and while we were talking about the coming lawsuits I mentioned the fact that Halliburton is owned by G.E. He was caught off guard. He stated that he didn't know that fact and he could see why some of the biggest law firms around are getting in on the litigation.
He is criminal lawyer and is not in any of the groups getting in the different aspects of the litigation.
As you probably know G.E. and BP deep pockets are both very tight in Washington circles from the bottom to the top.
He is criminal lawyer and is not in any of the groups getting in the different aspects of the litigation.
As you probably know G.E. and BP deep pockets are both very tight in Washington circles from the bottom to the top.
As Justin Wilson would have said,
"Dun you wuri nun bout dat. Tamara de be nuffta tar'n'feder dem aaaaallllll ova dem sels."
"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying." Tony Hayward CEO, BP
**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
"Dun you wuri nun bout dat. Tamara de be nuffta tar'n'feder dem aaaaallllll ova dem sels."
"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying." Tony Hayward CEO, BP
**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
And you thought that a vortex was only required for commodes to function properly. This is one of several types of apparatus being evaluated by people of all dimensions.
Voraxial Oil Separator
I went over to the beach to see this material demonstrated. it works as described and is relatively inexpensive. It is a Urethane fabric and has the ability to host some super microbes that start immediately start to work on the oil.
X-Tech Fabric
Saw an interesting conversation that illuminated the problem of getting anything accomplished. There are 35 government agencies involved that have to give their approval before anything is presented to BP for a yea or nay.
They had one show and tell where a gentleman was using very dry straw, like was used in the Santa Barbara Spill, He asked the CG about using it and the reply send back was that it will soak up oil but you end up with a mess of oily straw, but no oil on the water. The person who was demonstrating it asked about piling it up and burning it. The answer to the question Oh No that will cause pollution.
Voraxial Oil Separator
I went over to the beach to see this material demonstrated. it works as described and is relatively inexpensive. It is a Urethane fabric and has the ability to host some super microbes that start immediately start to work on the oil.
X-Tech Fabric
Saw an interesting conversation that illuminated the problem of getting anything accomplished. There are 35 government agencies involved that have to give their approval before anything is presented to BP for a yea or nay.
They had one show and tell where a gentleman was using very dry straw, like was used in the Santa Barbara Spill, He asked the CG about using it and the reply send back was that it will soak up oil but you end up with a mess of oily straw, but no oil on the water. The person who was demonstrating it asked about piling it up and burning it. The answer to the question Oh No that will cause pollution.
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