Oroville Dam Spillway Leaking (Again, 18 March 2019) As Waters Rise (Again) Behind Dam 27

[racookpe1978]

Complete failure at Oroville Dam
Original story and links at

http://www.americanthinker.com

| 3/18/2019 | by Chriss Street

Details at

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/03/complete_failure_at_oroville_dam.html

Posted on 3/18/2019 at

http://www.freerepublic.com

, 1:42:12 PM by rktman

From that story,
The $1.1 billion spent to repair Oroville Dam is failing as water is seeping through the rebuilt spillway threatens new mass evacuations over the risk of the dam collapsing.

According to national dam expert Scott Cahill of Watershed Services of Ohio, Oroville Dam is on the same failure track as in 2017, with visible water seepage trickling from the foot of the dam and dozens of points along the dam's principal spillway. Cahill warns that warming temperatures magnified by precipitation is a growing threat to the dam.

American Thinker reported on March 1 that the Sierra snow pack was at a record 113 inches, but another 44 inches fell in the next 10 days. With temperatures spiking this week to 75 degrees in the valleys and 41 degrees in the high mountains, dam inflows are running twice the outflows, and the water levels rose from 800 to 839 feet.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I think it would have been better if you had posted this item in the existing Oroville Dam thread...

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=420883

...as it's still open and accepting replies, as this would help provide some continuity.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Spartan5]

The water level is currently at 840 feet. Roughly 60' below the crest of the auxillary (emergency) spillway. To the best of my knowledge, the primary spillway has not been activated yet.

What's the problem here?

http://oroville.lakesonline.com/Level/

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/dynamicapp/QueryF?s=ORO

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-thinker/

EDITED: To remove incendiary references to political bias from image.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I think I'll wait until Juan Browne posts another one of his aerial flyover videos of the Oroville Dam. I just watched one from a couple of weeks ago and he promises to keep the all of us up-to-date as the dam nears capacity, which he's expecting due to the heavy snow-pack in the Sierras (last report I heard was that we were at 157% of normal).

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[itsmoked]

Yeah meeee too. That "American Thinker" site should probably be re-titled "American Click Baiter".

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[msquared48]

The crest of the main spillway is at 813.6 and the maximum lake elevation and crest of the overflow spillway is either 901 or 905 depending where you look.

The current lake level is about 840, so the main spillway gates are retaining water.

As I recall, the current lake level is close to where the problems of 2017 manifested. That information should be in the original thread string.

Will be interesting to see what happens.




Mike McCann, PE, SE

 

[BridgeSmith]

Just because a web site has "Fact Check" in the name, doesn't mean you can trust what they tell you:

Scam site “Media Bias Fact Check” caught cribbing its ratings from Wikipedia

Anyway, how does American Thinker's supposed political bias change the water level at the Oroville Dam, or the fact that the spillway is leaking? If you want to dispute something, dispute it. Attacking the source accomplishes nothing.

 

[racookpe1978]

I did consider adding this article to the previous thread, but considered a year's repair progress to change the starting point; plus the new rising this spring thaw period (combined with greater snow pack and more rain earlier) make (or may not) cause different effects.

It is a "new spillway". Thus, this month's levels (even the same date as last year) and this year's flow (if the spillway is used at all), is different water over a different dam. Or a different horse out of a different barn door - to misuse a different analogy.

 

[Spartan5]

Anyway, how does American Thinker's supposed political bias change the water level at the Oroville Dam, or the fact that the spillway is leaking? If you want to dispute something, dispute it. Attacking the source accomplishes nothing.

I did dispute it by posting relevant FACTUAL information that indicates that they haven't even activated the spillway yet.

What "fact" has even been posted that it is leaking? A link to a garbage website with ZERO evidence of any problem whatsoever?? With the headline "COMPLETE FAILURE?" I wasn't attacking the source. I was calling a spade a spade lest some rational person seeking actual information assign some validity to what is published there. If this is a real thing are there no better sources reporting on it? Nope. Must be part of a lame-stream media coverup.

How many red flags do you need in fewer than 100 words?
[ul]
[li]Water is seeping? I would expect at least a picture of this, no?[/li]
[li]New mass evacuations? Gosh. Where's the link to a relevant public safety advisory?[/li]
[li]Risk of the dam collapsing???? @#$%! Where's the link to a relevant public safety WARNING??[/li]
[li]On the same failure track??? Last time it failed when the spillway was ripping and roaring. It hasn't even had a release yet. Let along a significant one.[/li]
[li]Visible water seepage from the foot of the dam!! Again... not that that has anything to do with the spillway... but is a picture too much to ask?[/li]
[/ul]

Now there may very well be some problems with the dam. But they haven't even used the repaired spillway yet. So how can that be playing any part whatsoever in its "complete failure", let alone in the total collapse of the dam?


Look through the comments at that garbage site. They are far more concerning than any issue with the spillway. I'm not sure which is worse; the total lack of critical thought or intellectual curiosity by the people there (who likely don't even know what a spillway is), or the empty echo chamber rhetorical drivel that those people feel compelled to post ad infinitum. It's not there to inform. It's there to drive traffic and feed those people who need their itch scratched.

That it even got posted here...

And your link to the Palmer Report; really? That's garbage too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Report

C'mon, people. We can do better than this.

 

[btrueblood]

Sigh. The Redding Reporter, local newspaper states:

"Water is starting to seep down the rebuilt Oroville Dam spillway. California Department of Water Resources officials said Wednesday this is common and will not affect the operation of the dam's gates, which are not watertight."

So, not-news became clickbait news. I think the originalamericanthinker rehash article also mentioned seepage on the dam face, which has happened since the dam was first filled, and is attributed to surface runoff, not thru-wall leakage - that from having watched Blancorilo's excellent coverage over the last two years.

https://www.redding.com/story/news/...constructed-oroville-dam-spillway/3078848002/

 

[BridgeSmith]

Spartan5, had you dispensed with posting someone's opinion of American Thinker, and just addressed what they presented that was unverified or wrong, that would have been fine. The bulk of your post was an attack on the supposed political leanings of the source. Even in your response, you couldn't stay on topic about the dam and whether there is a problem with the spillway or not. This is an engineering forum, not a space for political bias discussions or rants about some website or another.

Wikipedia? Really? "C'mon, people. We can do better than this."

 

[Spartan5]

This is an engineering forum. And unsubstantiated clickbait from disreputable websites doesn't really warrant any attention here, eh?

I did dispense of the "article" very quickly and concisely with links to factual information. It did not require a lot of "bulk" to do that because, on it's face, the content was so wrong.

I didn't care or know about the political leanings of the site (and I still don't). But given how inaccurate it was, I did a quick search. When I saw it was "questionable" for multiple reasons (extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for the purpose of profit or influence), I saw fit to pass that along to the forum. And the most expedient means of doing this was with a snapshot and link.

I come here for intelligent discussion of engineering related matters, not alarmist clickbait. Do you really think my raising concerns as to the the veracity of the information was unwarranted?

As it stands we still have a headline here about the spillway "leaking." What does that even mean?

And yes, wikipedia. It's orders of magnitude more informative and reliable than clickbait "news" sites.

 

[Compositepro]

I'm learning a lot in this thread, but it is not about any dam. As for Wikipedia, it is one of the most useful sites on the internet, certainly greater than eng-tips. Sure, it is subject to manipulation but it is also self-correcting over time. Click-bait headlines are very irritating but is pervasive in all media, Left/Right or Fake/Real. This whole thread appears to have been started due to click-baiting.

I have read many articles in mainstream newspapers where the articles basically say the opposite of what the headline implies. The purpose of a headline is usually only to get people to read the article. The real problem is to get people to read the article before forwarding to friends.

 

[BridgeSmith]

I had no issue with correcting false or inflammatory information. What I found unprofessional was the screenshot of some random person's opinion of the political leanings of the source website, which had nothing to do with disputing the content of the article. You provided one statement and 2 links (which btw didn't counter anything in the article) and then threw up an irrelevant full-page screenshot.

 

[EdStainless]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikDEWbK9go

Juan Brown update.

As he calls them 'wack-a-doodles'
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube

 

[LionelHutz]

What response should one expect when a political leaning, click bait site is posted as a source for a story that has no factual basis?

Also, why should a responder think they are holding any high ground when that responder has posted a link to yet another questionable site?

This whole mess warrants red-flags, not further responses.

 

[Spartan5]

Now you have problems with random people? The OP's article was itself a random person's opinion of what was happening at Oroville. There was no real content to dispute. This is akin to someone posting a link to the National Enquirer stating that Bigfoot exists and you taking me to task for calling out the NE as garbage instead of disproving the existence of Bigfoot. A screenshot about the NE for the uninformed would be entirely relevant in that case, as it was in this one.

That aside, I posted information (the raw engineering grade data) which shows the spillway has not been activated. If the spillway has not been activated, it can't really be in a state of "complete failure." What more do you want?

You, HotRod10, have posted that it is a "fact" that the spillway is leaking. Tell me more about this fact. How is it that the spillway is leaking? From an engineering standpoint, how is a spillway leak contributing to the potential for mass evacuations and the total collapse of the dam? What's your reputable source of information for this fact? Any ideas as to why ENR hasn't reported on this yet?

Bringing this back to the OP.... The title say that the spillway is leaking "again." When was it leaking before?

 

[BridgeSmith]

"What response should one expect when a political leaning, click bait site is posted as a source for a story that has no factual basis?"

On this site, which is supposedly populated by engineering professionals, I would expect the responses to address the facts and put forth some analysis of the relevant information, not links and rants about irrelevant political bias.

"You, HotRod10, have posted that it is a "fact" that the spillway is leaking. Tell me more about this fact."

Apparently, the gates are leaking, which is completely normal and not a problem. Did I claim otherwise?

"From an engineering standpoint, how is a spillway leak contributing to the potential for mass evacuations and the total collapse of the dam?"

Apparently, it's not. Had you confined your post to addressing that or other engineering-related topics, I probably wouldn't have posted at all, but you went off topic into the political bias of the source. The political biases of American Thinker, Media Bias/Fact Check, the Palmer Report, Wikipedia, or any others are irrelevant to an engineering discussion. For my part, I apologize to everyone for responding to the distraction, rather than staying on topic.

 

[BridgeSmith]

In regard to the OP, it shows some water leaking out between the slabs down in the middle of the spillway. Depending on the source of that water, it could be cause for concern (but not panic or fearmongering, of course). Apparently, several people that understand the system have looked at it and determined it's not a cause for concern, since it is not the result of water from the reservoir moving through the dam and does not indicate an erosion problem. As I understand it, erosion under the spillway was one of the major contributing factors to the mess 2 years ago, so it's not ridiculous to ask the question, either.

 

[Spartan5]

I posted no rants and made no mention of political bias myself. You are the one who has focused on injecting into this thread a discussion of political biases. Not me. That's where this has broken down. I couldn't care less about their political bias. But I absolutely don't care for pseudoscience, conspiracies, "fake news" click-bait, or poorly sourced inaccurate reporting. How many of those boxes have they ticked off with this story?

All I wanted to do was to point out that the site is QUESTIONABLE. It appears that it is an accurate description given what they posted about Oroville. I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt that it's a coincidence as it pertains to the politics of the matter. Wackadoodles are wackadoodles; Right, Left, or Center.

(I see that the crack reporting team over there is now stating that the spillway was flowing at 100,000 acre feet per second when it failed. Looks like they could be hiring for an engineering content editor LOL.)