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Ozone hole ? 6

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rb1957

rb1957

Aerospace
Apr 15, 2005
15,742
not really climate change but I mentioned it and then scratched away at the scab.

NASA data doesn't show any recovery to me ?



"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
 
 https://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=6409b661-133d-466b-a82e-5d20db168453&file=Screen_Shot_07-29-22_at_01.27_PM.PNG
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one thing we should monitor is the presence of free Cl ions (which apparently came from CFCs).

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
 
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NASA apparently thinks that it'll be in the 2065 before ozone depletion recovers. At least, with the Montreal protocol, the hole area has somewhat plateaued. The 2nd link's video has a graphic showing the ozone hole chlorine level decreasing

PHOTO-ozone_avg_2021_hires-NASA_E2_80_99s_20Earth_20Observatory-Joshua_20Stevens_102621_sljzm6.png

chlorine_uwab6m.jpg


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I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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Maybe it's just governmentspeak to make you think they have done something. I was unaware of the problem; I thought it had been 'solved'.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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It had, in the sense that they banned most chemicals that resulted in ozone depletion, but not everyone had actually gotten rid of them, or stopped making them. I distinctly remember that I could still get real Freon© from Mexico, nearly 10 years after it wasn't available in the US, like around the 1997 timeframe. If you squint hard enough, the first graph seems to show some downward trend occurring in the last decade

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I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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I'm trying to find some data ... not just a video of a "talking head" (ok, maybe she's the lead investigator). She did "blab" on about cold temperatures affecting the ozone level, and didn't say anything like the obvious "we normalised the results for temperature". Of course that'd involve some normalising coefficients (which may be speculative). But if you synchronize ozone level and temperature then you'd see "oh, this was a warm year, that's why the small hole" (or the other way round ... warm = large hole).

What I have found is from "Wattsup" ...
...
which says that more study revealed a hitherto unknown reaction creates molecular Cl from seawater.

We see that so often ... more research reveals deeper mechanisms and deeper understanding (and more questions).
Now could a source of molecular CL inside the polar region be responsible for the free CL at altitude ? (rather than CFCs liberated, to a large extent, on the other side of the equator). Maybe they can show (by isotopes?) that yes this Cl came from a CFC ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
 
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Nearly all foam insulations 'off gas' and the old products are still out there and will be for a few decades I suspect. Same with old refrigerant units... as they age, they maybe leak... just a thought. [pipe]

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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rb, my last link is one of the publications from her, but I think the issue has been the extremely difficult challenge of getting decent measurements

dik, sure, there's plenty of that, my own house's A/C still has its original charge from when we installed it in 1994, and my house that we bought in 2009 supposedly had Freon, even though that A/C was installed in 2007

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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I'm curious how much of the effect the ozone hole could have on global warming.

It may be more localized at the south or north poles. But that extra radiation could have an effect, right?
 
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The ozone hole allows more heat (more radiation that turns into heat?) to strike the earth's surface, I think. [pipe]

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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sure... but I read the article, and it kinda makes some sense. Can you tell me where it's in error? [pipe]

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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Yes, they neglected to mention the fact that solar winds caused a loss of 60% of the ozone layer 4 years before their article was written and make no mention of that non-man-made phenomenon.
 
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an omission, but it still doesn't render the rest of the information as useless. I don't know what the state of the art was back 10 years ago with respect to solar winds... maybe solar winds may be active, or maybe just another 'red herring'.

This article from NASA, apparently 2 days ago fails to mention solar winds. The references date back a decade. Part of the problem is the articles are undated [pipe]:


So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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Oh it's not useless. It's quite useful. It's intended to steer your opinion, it's not intended to inform. UCS is a political think tank and not actually a union of scientists.
 
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Thanks for the 'heads up', but the information appeared to be correct based on other information.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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