Ozone hole ? 6

[rb1957]

not really climate change but I mentioned it and then scratched away at the scab.

NASA data doesn't show any recovery to me ?



"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[TugboatEng]

You do know that the Earth is not round?

 

[dik]

If I recall, it's called an oblate sphereoid, or something of that ilk... what does it matter?

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Yes, it's wider around the equator. This matters because water melted from ice flows into the oceans and adds to the bulge around the equator. This increases the polar moment of inertia of the earth and by conservation of momentum, should cause the rotation to slow.

 

[Guest102023]

You do know that the Earth is not round?

Course I do. Even you know it’s flat.

"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"

 

[TugboatEng]

A disk is round and flat... Earth is neither round or flat.

 

[dik]

Tug... absolutely not... as I mentioned above, "if the centroid of the glaciers is 'lowered' then the earth would 'speed up' from simple mechanics. Since we're talking about mass, 10 gms of ice, nearly weigh as much as 10 gms of water." It's speed has been measured and it's speeding up a few milliseconds. This may have an effect on the tectonic plates, but I don't know for sure... it may increase/decrease seismic activity/volcanism... but, don't know for sure.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

"neither round or flat."... "neither round nor flat."

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

brims... take it easy on tug. We can all play nice.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Dik, the ice is mostly at the poles close to the axis of rotation. It's contribution to inertia is small. Once it melts and the sea levels rise, it will push up the bulge in the equatorial region which has significant effect on rotational inertia.

 

[dik]

Sorry Tug... the speed is changing by milliseconds... not really a big change, but a change nonetheless. They've measured it and it is speeding up... Any change can impact the plate tectonics in a bad way, or a not so bad way.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

What is the point of your comment, dik?

The speed of rotation varies. We haven't been measuring it for very long. It's not worth being alarmed about a record.

 

[dik]

You're incorrect about it causing the rotation to slow down... Even slowing down can cause problems, too.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Guest102023]

Either way, first thing Monday morning at work I will requisition a seat belt for my office chair.

"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"

 

[dik]

It might not help if it's on castors.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Tug... please accept my apologies... you are correct, "That makes no sense."

I came across an article last night on this very topic; they cannot offer an explanation, either, but apparently both things are happening. We are in new territory here and some effects may be unpredictable.

https://www.inverse.com/science/why-is-the-earth-spinning-faster

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Do they read my posts here?

But Levine says this effect can’t explain why the planet suddenly would spin faster because melting glaciers should have the opposite effect: The planet’s moment of inertia would increase, which would slow us down.

 

[dik]

Why not... I may not always agree with you, but it's part of the learning process. I learn new stuff, or correct old stuff.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

So, with even the simplest seeming things, it seems the result doesn't align with our theories.

Polar ice melting should add water to the equator which should increase the MoI of the Earth and reduce it's rotation. But the Earth appears to be speeding up.

Yes, very small effects, but easily measurable and contradictory to our expectations.

Could it be that there's more happening that we think ?
From my experience, when we look into some question we generally find more questions.
Often our linkage between cause and effect is too simple and wrong (in that it misses some of the underlying processes).

Could it possibly be that the ozone hole was something like this ? That we determined it was due to our CFCs, when it could have been due to something else.
Something manmade or not. For the ozone hole, could the free CL molecules have come not from our CFCs but for some other natural process ?
This does not say that that it isn't a manmade problem, only that we may not know what is the manmade problem causing it.

Since we dramatically reduced our CFC usage we haven't seen a dramatic change in the hole. I read the data to say that the hole has stabilized, and possibly our first measures detected a natural variation. Possibly we detected the hole that was always there ?

Is it possible that nature is more complicated than we think, and that we don't really know enough ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

When I first heard about the earth 'speeding up'... my first thought was that ice had reduced the outermost mass. That was the only thing I could attribute it to. Tug's comment made sense... so I had to dig a little deeper, and found out that others didn't know why, either. I suspect there are many mechanisms at play here, but I don't know what... I don't have a clue about what the end result will be, but I suspect it will not be good.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SnTMan]

"The doctor said it'd kill me but he didn't say when"

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand