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Position and it's Required Datums

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penjo1

Mechanical
May 9, 2024
2
Hi all,

First time here and a couple months into GD&T. I have a question regarding position and it's required datums. I've attached an image that portrays the gist of what I'm working through.

TLDR: Is a datum C required to position the holes?

As you can see on the image, I've identified datum A as the top face and datum B as the midplane L to R. I initially had datum C identified as the mating face in the cutout perpendicular to A and B (C1), but it was causing some issues with locating the holes from this surface so I thought of changing it to C2. When consulting a checker, he said to remove datum C altogether and let surfaces C1, C2, and C2's opposing face be controlled purely by size tolerance, and for the holes position tolerance only to reference datum A and B, and using basic dimensions from face C2 to locate the holes. He explained it that when they go to make the holes, they will orient to A and B, touch off on that top surface using the basic dimensions, and then drill the holes. Adding datum C would introduce an extra boundary condition to C, where I thought when using position in 3 dimensions (when your datums are planes and not axes), you had to have 3 datums with basic dimensions leading back to those datums (whether its a single or chain of basic dims). It seems here that by using basic dims to C2, we're using C2 as a pseudo-datum without calling it out...

So is datum C required here or can I correctly constrain the holes without it? Do I need to make the dimensions toleranced instead of basic in that "C" plane if there is no C? Then I feel like that defeats the point of position... and if I do need it, which surface should I use?
 
 https://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=13253a6f-04d7-48b2-a553-e1ff299a2749&file=position_gd&t.png
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The forum software doesn't like the "&" in the name. There are other non-alphanumeric characters it will accept for upload, but then the download software fails for them.
 
Features need to be measured from datums. Presently you have vertical dimensions for the holes that are not to a datum feature and, by not existing, that (missing) datum feature does not appear in the Feature Control Frame.

You don't reference the surface with the C1 on it with a dimension to the holes; you do reference the surface with the C2.

"touch off on that top surface using the basic dimensions, and then drill the holes. Adding datum C would introduce an extra boundary condition to C"

Yes. That is what using that surface as a datum feature means - touching off on it to establish the vertical location.

If they don't want to use the entire surface, you can use a target area or a target point so the machinist will know exactly where to touch the part and the inspector will also be aware so they both use the same place.
 
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