Removing interior columns in an existing PEMB 6

[pderrick21]

I've got a project where the existing PEMB has frames at 20' on center. Out-to-out of PEMB frame is 120' with interior columns approximately 20' from the exterior column. The owner wants to remove the interior columns. Has anyone done this?

 

[haynewp]

I used to design PEMB's and agree with ajh1.

 

[Archie264]

>>>Its an existing church that had classrooms around the perimeter with the sanctuary in the middle portion. Now the sanctuary is expanding to the out-to-out dimensions.<<<

Shoot, if that's what it's for just remove the interior partitions (assuming they don't have any shear-wall function) and live with the interior columns. Even some of the grandest cathedrals in the world have interior columns in their main sanctuaries.

Anything else is a waste of money and is foolish vanity. Remind them of the parable about the rich man who kept building larger barns. (Luke 12:13-21)

 

[SAIL3]

I agree with Archie.....they could clad the existing cols with some architectural details that would be more appropriate for a church and cost allot less and have minimum disruption to the use of the bldg......

 

[bigengineer]

I can gladly say I am at the point in my career that I would turn this project down, without a second thought or hesitation.

Building was likely designed with reduced RLL as well.

 

[JedClampett]

I started writing this a couple of times, but started getting too negative, so I'll try again.
If you choose to ignore my and hokie66's advice to run away from this, think of this: What will you do, after all the measuring, analysis and assumptions, if you can't get the building to work as is? How do you break it to the owner, that it can't take the code prescribed loads of 2017, 1997, or 1977? You've got to tell them. It's an ethical responsibility.
Some scabs are not worth picking at.

 

[JStructsteel]

I wouldnt do any measuring, calcs etc until they buy into a design. Making into new truss, adding beams, etc. Get them to realize the undertaking here. Then talk with contractor to get a order of magnitude on cost.



Hate to bring up an Architect, but has one been consulted to check all the crap they do? Interior space, exterior elevations, etc.

 

[msquared48]

I agree totally with Hokie and Jed.

Some projects are ridiculous and should be avoided.

Please listen...

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[bridgebuster]

@pderrick21 - Archie264 makes a great point. My parish is going to build a new church. The building will be roughly 120 x 120,(may well be a PEMB) with two lines of interior columns per the architectural plan. However, the columns don't interfere with the sightlines because of how the pews will be arranged.

Based on the opinions expressed about how the potential high cost, you can remind them of another parable (Luke 14:28) "Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won't you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? BTW - that's what we're doing.

 

[KootK]

What's the roof pitch on this thing anyhow?

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[dcarr82775]

Sounds like an interesting problem. Sure it is costly, but if the client understands the issues both real and potential and still want to go forward, do it.