Tesla Autopilot, fatal crash into side of truck 6

[MacGyverS2000]

They have a name for a system that requires you to keep your hands on the wheel, your attention on the road, etc. They call it "driving"!

I keep seeing these conditions placed on the "auto-pilot" system for "proper" use... but those conditions keep taking us right back to having no auto-pilot system at all. Collision avoidance system, maybe? Okay, then call it that and don't try to control the car 100% of the time, only that 0.00001% of the time when a problem arises. Of course, that raises a completely different set of concerns... what happens when the car suddenly tries to arrest away control from the driver and the driver knows best?

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[IRstuff]

Some things simply take time to get drivers used to doing a different thing. When ABS first came out, there were avoidable accidents because drivers attempted to override the ABS control of the brakes.

The bottom line that these accidents reveal is that we are still a ways from a true auto-pilot system. The DARPA Grand Challenge required way more sensors than any of these cars have, and you really need a suite of sensors to cover all the possible and probable contingencies, since no single sensor can do all the jobs all the time.

What might really be an issue in the future is what happens if EVERY car is equipped with radars, sonars, and ladars; avoidance of interference from other cars' emissions will be an interesting problem to solve. Just imagine if you're surrounded by cars pinging you and each other while your poor sensors are doing the same and trying to sort out all the resultant clutter.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529

 

[VEBill]

Apparently, one is supposed to drive around like this:

As far as I know, that's an official Tesla marketing photo.

 

[VEBill]

...you really need a suite of sensors to cover all the possible and probable contingencies...

Microphones to hear the emergency vehicle sirens, or (ultimately) the terrified passengers screaming.

Smoke detectors, to wake up the dozing passengers, in case the car catches fire.

They're already starting to realize that Tesla Autopilot, retroactively renamed Autopilot 1.0, needs additional hardware.

http://bgr.com/2016/08/18/tesla-autopilot-2-0-features-retrofit/

Next, they'll sadly discover that the CPU isn't powerful enough.

When they finally get a system that's actually acceptable, the ratio of the solution complexity (acceptable/initial) will be a moderately large number. Like dozens-to-one.

 

[cranky108]

So why would Tesla be driving in that lane, and not the lane to the right? I've never seen in the drivers manual where it describes why you would want to drive in the middle left lane.

Also I can see if you are trying to pull over, because you are being pulled over, that the car takes off leading you involved in a high speed chase away from the police.

Actually a CO2 detector in a car is a good idea.

And the statement "since no single sensor can do all the jobs all the time" sort of implies that no human can do the job.

But if a self driving car is ever perfect, then we won't need seat belts, air bags, and car crumple zones.

 

[IRstuff]

"When they finally get a system that's actually acceptable, the ratio of the solution complexity (acceptable/initial) will be a moderately large number. "

as was the case with the Grand Challenge competitors.

" sort of implies that no human can do the job."

and it can't [no lights, rain, fog, sleet], but it's way better than most sensors because the brain makes up for missing data by making up or inferring data. There's no way that a human driver would have not noticed that truck. The biggest issue with the human isn't the sensing, per se, it's the boredom and alertness. Computers don't get bored or lose alertness, yet.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529

 

[JohnRBaker]

So why would Tesla be driving in that lane, and not the lane to the right?

On a highway like that, that would be the lane that I would consistently drive in.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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[cranky108]

As someone who usually drives the speed limit, I can tell you that driving in the lanes on the left when there is little traffic can be of a concern. There seems to always be people who want to drive much faster than the speed limit. So I would stay in the next lane over.

I would assume the Tesla would follow the speed limit (which would be a plus if every car did that).

So when is the driving theory of the computer going to be hacked so people can go a little faster? Sort of like changing the chip on your car to make it accelerate faster (who cares what it was intended for).

 

[JohnRBaker]

If you look at the picture, the Tesla WAS IN THE NEXT LANE OVER from the so-called 'high-speed' lane. I tend to drive the speed limit and so when there are three or more lanes, I drive in the one NEXT to the 'high-speed' lane, as the Tesla was doing in the posted photo.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[VEBill]

"...if a self driving car is ever perfect, then we won't need seat belts, air bags, and car crumple zones."

What about speed limits?

If self-driving cars are going to be 'perfect', then they can drive as fast as they like.

Right?

 

[cloa]

You'll still crumple zones, seat belts and air bags with a perfect self-drive. There are road disasters that reveal at such great rate e.g. truck's wheel disintegrates, train derails, that leave an instant reaction/ pre-prepared (expert precautionary) computer unable to fully prevent serious damage simple because the mechanisms of cars and road space limit responses- maximum braking application, maximum turning speed...

http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=1529

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[NormPeterson]

So why would Tesla be driving in that lane, and not the lane to the right? I've never seen in the drivers manual where it describes why you would want to drive in the middle left lane.

I doubt you'll find it in any driver training manual, but one lane over makes it easier for traffic merging onto the highway - this usually being on the right - to do so without requiring
either that traffic or you to do anything special to accommodate each other. The less you have to do, the easier it is on the people following to not have to do anything special to fit what
you did. Basically it avoids having both the merging driver and the driver already on the highway trying to force a "me first/you're going to wait" mentality on the other, or both doing an
"after you, Alphonse" dance to the disadvantage of everybody in the vicinity.

The effects of highway crown are usually greater in the extreme right and extreme left lanes. That's where the puddles will be deeper when it rains, and these will be the lanes that sacrifice
some width to snow clearing operations.

On a long highway stretch with no interchanges and little or no traffic you might as well drive in the right lane, subject to any consequences of the weather.


Norm
(edited to eliminate having to scroll horizontally)

 

[JohnRBaker]

Some states, but NOT California, reserves the far Left lane, of a multi-lane highway, for passing only. And there are some states which also requires that anyone driving less than the posted speed-limit, they must do so in the far Right lane.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[cranky108]

So a self driving car should change the way it drives depending on the state or country it is in. Correct?

I notice that people from California tend to ignore the yield signs when coming into traffic, and often they find they run out of acceleration lane.

Not that I dislike people from California, it's just the largest state driving difference that I see very much of.

And what about construction zones, where the speed limit changes, but not on fixed basis?

 

[JohnRBaker]

When we first moved to California 36 years ago (in fact, we arrived 36 years ago TOMORROW, which also happened to be my birthday) one of the first things we were told was to not look at driving as needing to 'fight traffic'. If that's your attitude, you're going to lose as traffic is bigger than we are. While you may never get to where you love it, you will have to learn to respect it and try to live with it as best as you can. And one other thing you learn here is that the local gendarme's primary job, when it comes to dealing with drivers, is to assure the safe flow of traffic, which goes well beyond just enforcing the speed limits.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[cranky108]

What makes the failure to yield thing worse is that more people now follow too closely so there is no spaces between cars. I believe this to be a young people problem with not wanting to wait for anything.

They must really hate me because I slow down for tailgaters.

 

[Spartan5]

They must really hate me because I slow down for tailgaters.

I hope you're not doing this in anything but the rightmost lane when traveling on a multi-lane highway. In many places it would otherwise be against the law.

 

[VEBill]

The correct approach for tailgaters is to take the missing '2-second rule' gap and add it to the front. You need to allow a 4-second gap, double the normal, in front of you to compensate for the tailgater.

If you live where you can't leave any gap, move!

Then, perhaps not quite so correctly, you can subtly oscillate your speed up and down by an imperceptible one or two mph (or kmh), with a repetition rate matching their tailgating response time - but carefully out of phase. They'll oscillate increasingly wildly and give up and go around. If you're subtle enough (e.g. do not look in mirror, use peripheral vision only), they won't even know what happened. An important detail in gun-toting states.

 

[Lou Scannon]

ah yes, passive aggressive driving styles...

I try to be as little interference to other road users as possible, while bending the law as little as possible to safely do so. E.g., I will accelerate above my cruising speed in order to complete a passing manoeuver in the left lane more quickly, in order to make way for faster traffic behind me, if any.

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz

 

[BrianPetersen]

On a road with multiple lanes in the same direction the FIRST correct response for tailgaters, if you are in anything but the rightmost travel lane, is to move right. Let them by. If you need to speed up or slow down a little to expedite moving right, so be it.

After that, I like VE1BLL's suggestion but I've found that after moving right, the tailgaters are seldom an issue.

Rule of thumb: Hemi has this right as well; present as little interference to other road users as possible. If someone else wants to drive faster than you do, get out of their way (as long as it is safe to do so). If someone wants to tailgate, let them tailgate somebody else.

Will self-driving logic address this ... ? ? ?