Tesla Autopilot, fatal crash into side of truck 6

[GregLocock]

Cars already have that data. When your airbag deploys the last few seconds of data get written away.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[JohnRBaker]

And 'black box' data from cars can and has been used in court. I know this first-hand as several years ago a coworker of mine was found guilty, based at least in part on the contents of his SUV's 'black box', after his involvement in an accident where three members of a family were killed. He was driving under the influence and the data showed that he never touched his brakes. He's still severing a prison sentence for murder.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[IRstuff]

The data exists, yes, but, as was mentioned, it's in proprietary formats. The hardware might survive most crashes, but the percentage is probably lower than what something like an NTSB would need or want.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[olynyk]

Here's the 500 pages of info - it's not a single report, it's the entire docket (like the entire collection of documents produced):

HWY16FH018 Docket

Also, I'm not sure if anybody has ever listened to this, but the podcast 99% Invisible, which is about design and architecture, did a 2-part podcast on "the automation paradox" in which automation actually makes things more unsafe in an emergency because it hands over control to an un-attentive human, whose skills have atrophied, at the worst possible time. The first part was about the Air France 447 crash, the second is about self-driving cars.

I think it's totally relevant here. The link is here: Johnnycab (Automation Paradox, Pt. 2. In this case, Tesla calls their system "Autopilot". Telling the driver "oh, you have to keep your hands on the wheel" when every incentive is to just treat it as a fully autonomous car, may not hold a lot of water. I wonder what the liability courts will say.

 

[BigInch]

It wasn't my fault, sir, please don't deactivate me. I told him not to go, but he's faulty, malfunctioning. Kept babbling on about his mission. - C-3PO concerning R2-D2

Guess you'd have to sue for deactivation.



Richard Feynman's Problem Solving Algorithm
1. Write down the problem.
2. Think very hard.
3. Write down the answer.

 

[Sparweb]

... in which automation actually makes things more unsafe in an emergency...

This is not a new issue.

As soon as it became technically possible to automate a vehicle with computers, engineers HAD to figure out what level of automation was appropriate.

Reprinted from "Digital Apollo" by David Mindell

https://books.google.ca/books?id=gX...pollo automation cartoon abort button&f=false

While it was easy to identify the extremes (as in the cartoon above), the best middle-ground was hotly debated. It was a very contentious issue, with astronauts pushing hard to have maximum control over the spacecraft, program managers pushing just as hard to ensure 100% mission success (by eliminating human error) - all of it offset by insightful engineers and specialists who figured out just how much command and control fidelity a trained human can handle in a computerized system before becoming overloaded.

NB. This is probably why Niel Armstrong was chosen to be the first man to walk on the moon. His mastery over computer control systems was unmatched by most other astronauts and it saved his life over and over through X-15 flying, NASA training, and Gemini. Everyone in the NASA chain of command knew that no computer could kill him. He made sure to prove it one last time, 25 seconds before touchdown!


STF

 

[IRstuff]

The recent collision of a US naval vessel and a rather gigantic cargo ship is an excellent example of such failures. One would have thought that all those radars and bodies in the bridge would have noticed that they were going to collide. I can't even being to picture why the US vessel was even that close to the other ship:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/navy-destroyers-deadly-collision-container-ship-japan/story?id=48131357

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, and the original Mercury capsule didn't even have a window until the astronauts demanded one be added.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[BigInch]

Designed by the original nerds for their pet chimps.
No real pilot will get into anything without a window.

Richard Feynman's Problem Solving Algorithm
1. Write down the problem.
2. Think very hard.
3. Write down the answer.

 

[olynyk]

SparWeb - I took Mindell's course on the history of Apollo in 2010 ("Digital Apollo" was one of the required texts for the course.) Easily the greatest, most interesting, most memorable course I've ever taken. He had 12 students have dinner with Commander David Scott! He's a great teacher and writer.

 

[Sparweb]

Olynk,
Where's the smiley icon for "brimming over with jealousy?"

Now that you've got me googling his name again, I see he has published a new book. Thanks!

STF