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Texas’ Big Freeze: The 2021 Power Crisis and the Lessons Learned One Year Later 34
- Thread starter bimr
- Start date
Strangely enough, a reason not to use excessively high pressure in gathering systems when you can get away with it.
The really interesting thing about gas hydrates is that there is 100yrs worth of natural gas locked up in the crystals in the cool deep water offshore North Carolina, as well as a number of equally large deposits in various locations around the world. There was some work done back 15yrs ago by Canada and Japan and the DOE in the effort required to produce it. A volume of seawater containing the deposits is isolated and pressure is reduced by pumping the crystal free water above out, thus causing the crystals to break down and liberate the gas, which is then captured and brought to the surface. 1 m3 of gas hydrate contains 160 m3 of gas (at atmospheric pressure), so it is very tempting to try to get our hands on the stuff. The work was discontinued, due to persistent low gas prices, but that price is rising again. Studies suggest hydrate production is economical when oil is above $54/bbl. Oil is above that level now, so research may start up again. It's interesting, but not without risk and controversy.
A couple of CBC articles on the topic,
2008
2013
Tax rebates on winterization expenses would fit seamlessly into the existing programs, if they are not doing that already.
The really interesting thing about gas hydrates is that there is 100yrs worth of natural gas locked up in the crystals in the cool deep water offshore North Carolina, as well as a number of equally large deposits in various locations around the world. There was some work done back 15yrs ago by Canada and Japan and the DOE in the effort required to produce it. A volume of seawater containing the deposits is isolated and pressure is reduced by pumping the crystal free water above out, thus causing the crystals to break down and liberate the gas, which is then captured and brought to the surface. 1 m3 of gas hydrate contains 160 m3 of gas (at atmospheric pressure), so it is very tempting to try to get our hands on the stuff. The work was discontinued, due to persistent low gas prices, but that price is rising again. Studies suggest hydrate production is economical when oil is above $54/bbl. Oil is above that level now, so research may start up again. It's interesting, but not without risk and controversy.
A couple of CBC articles on the topic,
2008
2013
Tax rebates on winterization expenses would fit seamlessly into the existing programs, if they are not doing that already.
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- #22
Yes. That's the controversial part. It's still fossil fuel, just not the worst one. If the EU can push nuclear power into the "green energy" box and if (or when) it comes to facing the possibility of freezing in the dark, anything is possible.
LittleInch
Petroleum
Hydrates are weird things though and whilst everyone like a nice thin line, the reality is this is actually a thick fuzzy line.
You can operate well within the hydrate zone without having significant issues due to lack of free water, steady flow, high velocities etc, but disturb something and bang - you get an ice plug which gets bigger and harder the higher the pressure.
So some people get a bit blase about it as "it's never happened to me", but changes in water content or pressure and of course temperature and away you go.
Even surface lines in the desert used to get unstable sometimes about 3 in the morning and then magically improved as the sun came up. I think the operators never really understood why, but pretty clear to the process aware pipeline engineers.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
You can operate well within the hydrate zone without having significant issues due to lack of free water, steady flow, high velocities etc, but disturb something and bang - you get an ice plug which gets bigger and harder the higher the pressure.
So some people get a bit blase about it as "it's never happened to me", but changes in water content or pressure and of course temperature and away you go.
Even surface lines in the desert used to get unstable sometimes about 3 in the morning and then magically improved as the sun came up. I think the operators never really understood why, but pretty clear to the process aware pipeline engineers.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
It appears that the Texas power grid has problems even when the state's not icing up:
ERCOT urges Texans to cut back on power usage over weekend
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
ERCOT urges Texans to cut back on power usage over weekend
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
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- #27
Fischstabchen
Electrical
Thank god Gov. Abbott has brought over GW of cryptomining load. It clearly has made everything better.
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- #30
Businesses don't pay state taxes nor provide jobs and benefits to locals? Be careful throwing stones in glass houses, NY has a bad history with disgraced governors and odds are somebody voted for them.
The reality is that every major metro has infrastructure problems occasionally. Until they reach the point of turning off or otherwise losing power every summer for years I dont see an engineering disaster, just some basic issues needing resolved.
The reality is that every major metro has infrastructure problems occasionally. Until they reach the point of turning off or otherwise losing power every summer for years I dont see an engineering disaster, just some basic issues needing resolved.
It is hard to appreciate partisan ranting on an engineering site. But I can participate, too, I guess.
I live in California, PG&E territory.
PG&E has some excellent engineers, as I have worked across the table from them on a couple of projects.
However, I would not for a minute look down my nose at any other states or the respective power producers, as the California and FERC regulators have been asleep at the wheel for 30+ years. And now my power gets turned off when the wind speed exceeds 3mph, no joke. At at 39 cents per kW, no less. Arizona, Texas, Colorado all look pretty good from here when the lights are out.
Engineering tie-in? There isn't one, really, except the engineers are not as rational as they believe. If all your favorite people got put in to power, would the situation be substantially better? Different, but probably not better.
I live in California, PG&E territory.
PG&E has some excellent engineers, as I have worked across the table from them on a couple of projects.
However, I would not for a minute look down my nose at any other states or the respective power producers, as the California and FERC regulators have been asleep at the wheel for 30+ years. And now my power gets turned off when the wind speed exceeds 3mph, no joke. At at 39 cents per kW, no less. Arizona, Texas, Colorado all look pretty good from here when the lights are out.
Engineering tie-in? There isn't one, really, except the engineers are not as rational as they believe. If all your favorite people got put in to power, would the situation be substantially better? Different, but probably not better.
Sales tax is on the product sold (only on the power if sold, if not exempt from sales tax).
You pay tax when buying BITCOINS?
How many BITCOIN MINERS will be employed in Tx? 3, 4?
No income tax in Tx, so that's pretty much as far as that goes. Nobody's going to be paying any Bitcoin income tax to Tx.
If my people were in power, pun intended, it certainly would not be illegal to consider solar power for anything.
A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.
You pay tax when buying BITCOINS?
How many BITCOIN MINERS will be employed in Tx? 3, 4?
No income tax in Tx, so that's pretty much as far as that goes. Nobody's going to be paying any Bitcoin income tax to Tx.
If my people were in power, pun intended, it certainly would not be illegal to consider solar power for anything.
A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
As far as I'm aware, the Bitcoin mining in Texas is done with flare gas, a normally wasted product
Thanks for the info.
If its really stranded gas, maybe it is OK in a way, but it falls back on BITCOIN still being a polluting investment. At least it isn't affecting grid load and its keeping two guys employed.
A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.
If its really stranded gas, maybe it is OK in a way, but it falls back on BITCOIN still being a polluting investment. At least it isn't affecting grid load and its keeping two guys employed.
A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.
Fischstabchen
Electrical
Tugboat,
That is a very small minority. All the large cryptomines are grid connected.
That is a very small minority. All the large cryptomines are grid connected.
Anyone know what caused those six Tx gen plants to trip off line like a week ago? Tried snooping around and found basically nothing. Overload? Under volts? Under freq? Any of those is more a grid management issue and not a plant fault.
I know this is the season to do sched maint, but they specifically said they tripped.
(edit- Not referring to feb 2021 trips from freeze, but the may 2022 trips)
I know this is the season to do sched maint, but they specifically said they tripped.
(edit- Not referring to feb 2021 trips from freeze, but the may 2022 trips)
electricpete
Electrical
NRG's W.A. Parish Unit 8 plant (coal) had a fire involving the generator on 5/9/22... I'm guessing either hydrogen fire or oil fire.
I talked to someone who talked to a W.A. Parish employee the next day. My understanding is that one or more of the other units at the same site temporarily went offline during that fire, but not for long.
There may have been some other things going on somewhere else.
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(2B)+(2B)' ?
I talked to someone who talked to a W.A. Parish employee the next day. My understanding is that one or more of the other units at the same site temporarily went offline during that fire, but not for long.
There may have been some other things going on somewhere else.
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(2B)+(2B)' ?
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