Texas power issues. Wind farms getting iced up (Part II)... 38

[1503-44]

Maybe that's too much like .... science.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I wouldn't be too critical the locals round me gas themselves regularly with CO and they all burn wood for heating in the house and saunas plus have crappy old soviet paraffin burners. And that's people that have been grown and bred with that sort of danger. If they can do it then anyone can.

 

[RedSnake]

I think one part of this, that haven't been discussed much is the way the transmission companies that where told to the rolling blackouts actually did them.
Here the transmission company would not leave household without power so long that the indoor temperature became so low that freezing would emerge.
It would bee done in time intervals depending on the outside temperature.
That's why it's called rolling blackouts..
I also wonder how much could have been avoided if the shedding/ rolling blackouts hadn't started in the middle of the night

Best Regards A



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[1503-44]

Rolling blackouts were successful in some areas, but failed in others.

Alistair, I assume you saw the "Its Fake Biden Snow" video originated in TX.

 

[cranky108]

All I can say to everyone who was blacked out, is blame government, that is who failed you, and will do it again.

Over or under regulation, or just inept government, and those people should be the ones who should be on the hook (federal and local).

 

[1503-44]

Power plants and the End of Their Design Life.

 

[dik]

So, your education system is failing, too... one of my few regrets was an opportunity to study at the U of Southampton... I passed on it because I had never been out of this country and was nervous.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Actually Estonia's education system is quiet good. I went through the Scottish and we had gas central heating with radiators. Although I must admit the physical science side of things is quiet lacking. And don't get me started on the anti vax situation here.

The main reason is modern building methods being combined with traditional practises.

The houses were self ventilating with plenty of ways for air to get in. They now wrap and seal them with double glazed windows. The old stoves pull over 5 m3 of air. The new regulation that are coming in is that all new fires have external air pipes into the burn area.

They are basically sweeping the country just now with the fire departments and fire masters inspecting every house ensuring that CO alarms are present, combustible fuel is 1.5 meters away from fire brick work and there is ventilation and the chimneys are sealed. The brother in law failed his and has a 6 month fix notice. I passed and I think I was the only onw in the area to do so first inspection.

You have to remember that anyone over the age of 25 was brought up under soviet system and its maybe only 15 years the buildings have been sealed. 50 year old gets their house done up and first winter sticks the fire on when its -20 outside, wife shuts everything up she can that produces a cold draught and they don't wake up the next morning.

 

[dik]

I remember, as a kid, waking up and putting coal into the old furnace/boiler... and how chilly it was first thing in the morning... and the old cast iron radiators... they had two temperatures... cold, and really hot.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

They have wood fired communal heating systems where every one in a block takes turns for a day feeding the burner in the the old soviet apartment blocks. That then gets cycled into a colossal buffer tank and then the apartment lines go off that. They really are scary devices the old soviet burners the new ones you can put a pellet feeder onto them. The wood that they put through them is pretty nasty some of it. Each apartment owner has to provide so many m3 of it every winter and they go through 3-4 m3 of it a day in Feb. The buffer tank sits around 70 deg C the top floor is lucky to see 30 deg feed temp to the radiators.

The locals all say I am crazy heating my place with electricity, But a m3 of wood is 35 euro the local houses even sealed go through about 20 m3 of it a winter. Most of them go and get there own wood from the forest which is a weeks worth of labour this time of year. 2 days chopping them down and getting them back to the farm then 2 days cutting it and splitting then 1 day moving piles of wood around so the next winters is in the wood shed and the new stuff is in the shack for drying. I heated my place this year for 130 euro.

 

[RedSnake]

Free workout ;-)

Here people with there own forest land usually burns wood, otherwise pellets is also usual.
My cousin put in a wood fired pan with automatic charge 1,5 meter loggs, most of them have accumulator tanks.
I am not shore many put this in at newbuilds.
My dear CH:s brother have a firm making wood pellets, he has the maschins in the old barn, they hade milk cows before.

I think most people puts in geothermal heat pump with water system, big apartment buildings usually have district heating.

I was looking for some statistics for carbon monoxide poisoning, but it seems it is so unusual here that there are not any ?
200 cases per year but that includes , people taking there life's in cars, people getting burn inside burning houses, some work-related accident, someone cleaning a tank without good ventilation the only real carbon monoxide poisoning apart from that seems to be boat owners that heat there boats gas.

Best Regards A



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I think from other conversations we have had you have had the regulation about requiring a direct pipe from outside to feed air to fires for a number of years,

They suffer brain drain a lot here with the intelligent engineering types and medics going abroad very quickly after graduating if not studying abroad anyway. There seems to be a group of them with 10-15 years international experience filtering back when their kids hit school age. And its not just UK after Brexit although the grid seems to have picked up 2 ex UK national grid network engineers.

They are getting there and improving regulation or at least compliance by inspection. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

 

[RedSnake]

I think from other conversations we have had you have had the regulation about requiring a direct pipe from outside to feed air to fires for a number of years.

Yes we have when making new installations.
New regulations are largely never retroactive.
They only take effect if you do something new or in the event of major changes.
I think a lot of them comes from the EU, but then it's a bit up to the countries how quickly and in what way things should be implemented.

Best Regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The fire master stuff on leaking chimneys won't force them to put a outside pipe in. But if the chimney is leaking they will have to fix it. If they can't run a lining pipe down it and it needs rebuilt then that's a new installation and the pipe will need to go in I believe.

The fire reg stuff with CO alarms etc is also compulsory like it or not.

It takes a while for things to filter through and usually someone in an area being brave enough to go for it.

I put a heat exchanger ventilation system linked to the heat pump. Much abuse by the locals and shaking of heads. Brother in law now has one sitting in his barn to go in his house. And two others in the area have them going in. It took two years of us not having any fungus growth or wood discolouring in the corners of rooms for them to decide it might be a good idea. Its quiet amusing seeing them visiting they all have a set way of looking round houses. I can't understand what they are on about but then "ventilation" gets mentioned and then my mrs shows them our service room with the unit it and you just know its been added to the nagging list for the bloke. The Brother in law wants to use the ventilation part of the chimney as the exhaust exit which I am not very sure about. I told him to stick two pipes through the roof void to either end of the house. But I have learned there is no point telling them. In fact its better if you don't because then there is a chance they will do it the way you think it should be done. If you tell them then they put max effort into doing it another way.

 

[RedSnake]

Well they always do a chimney pressure test if you put in or change your wood burner/chimney, in my case they only come and sweep the chimney every three years since it's only used during the summer month, the others must do it every year.
I can even get permission to chimney sweep myself if I apply.
I think the chimney sweeper makes a ocular inspection every time he comes.
They are quite good at it, I remember ones I was looking for buying a house then I called the master chimney sweeper in the area and asked him about the condition of the chimney he knew exactly what condition it was, saying the old man who lived there was burning the fire to hot almost gott a chimney burn

Here they fix bad chimneys with inside pipes, linings or slip casting.

If there is unused pipes in the chimney, they can be used as ventilation shafts here if it is done right.

Well I can understand there concern in the beginning here they made the houses super airtight and the ventilation didn't keep up and there was a lot of problems before they got right, but now there is a lo info so tit would not be a problem.

Best Regards A




“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[cranky108]

Here many people heat with wood, and several have gas fireplaces (with a glass face), and fewer people use wood pellets.

In Texas, very few people have a fireplace or wood or pellet stove. Modern homes there just don't have them.
Even here, if people have any other heat (other than electric space heater or main heat), it is likely to be a gas fireplace, controlled by electric.
Because propane is costly at times, most people in my area use a wood stove, or pellet stove. But the pellet stove can be costly to operate because of the cost of the pellets ($5-6 per 40lb bag).

That said I burn scrap wood mostly. I get it from a place that charges people to dump tree limbs, and dirt. Some of those tree limbs include the whole tree, which can dry over the summer.
I also collect dead fall, and cut dead trees from my land.

People is the city, if they have a fire place buy the $5 bundles, maybe half hours worth.

But CO detectors are also required, but require batteries.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

My ones are mains powered with battery backup. And they are all inter linked so if the cellar goes off so does the upstairs bedrooms one go off and it tells you where the problem is. If the CO goes off it triggers the ventilation system to pump 450m3 into the house.

The fire inspector was most impressed with it when he tested it with that tapper thing they burn. Works out at 40 bucks a year over the 10 year life span of them.

 

[cranky108]

I tried the AC powered CO detectors and they can alarm for high humidity. I don't use it anymore.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I use NEST and haven't had an issue with them apart from one of them sucked some dust in and I cleaned it out with compressed air and tested again afterwards.

But we don't have a problem with high humidity where I am.

 

[RedSnake]

My mother tests the one in the summerhouse with boiling water ;-)
The one I got at home goes of for the slightest thing cant se neither smoke or steam both goes on batterie.
But it beeps for quite sometime before it stops working.

Best Regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein