Texas power issues. Windfarms getting iced up. 67

[Alistair_Heaton]

That's a lot of capacity that's been lost. Must admit being Aberdonian we always associate Texas with hot and humid... Not snow storms.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nd-turbines-texas-power-outages-b1802596.html

 

[byrdj]

Any news on the nukes? I seems to remember Texas has 4 two are maritime climate and the other two are central. They are quiet old as well so I doubt they can be run up quickly or for that matter at max

Nukes normally operate at 100%, only backdown for scheduled testing (or problems)
from NRC>gov
STP#1 experianced a scram yesterday (ie automatic shut down due to operational concerns)the adverse condition is known, but reason is still under review, the NRC site will NOT be posting findings
the other three plants are at 100%

Never been to the Texas Nuke Plants, but the fossil plants I visited did NOT have exterior walls, Ie "outdoor" designss. Pretty common design in the South. NC even has outdoor NUKE

 

[EdStainless]

Having been in power plants in WY that were in mostly open structures made me realize what went into designing a plant for cold weather operation.
Sounds like ERCOT needs to revise the way that they rate plant availability. Add weather hardiness to the list.


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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[IRstuff]

We don't have a solar forum, per se, here but we do have forum633

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[IRstuff]

It almost doesn't necessarily matter what ERCOT thought they had, if enough systems go offline together, the load shedding can do annoying things

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[hacksaw]

Once upon a time, plants within 60 miles of the coast were only designed for 38-40F minimum ambients okay maybe a light freeze 32F, but certainly not 13 F for extended periods. The Florida panhandle had similar practices.

Sounds like the engineering decisions were set aside as too costly!

 

[Spartan5]

Per AH’s article, they’ve lost 12.5% of supply due to wind farm icing (50% of 25%).

But it sounds like this is being driven by a shortage of natural gas and related transmission issues.

I just read an article about the massive dumping of milk (50,000 lb/day) that is happening at one manufacturing plant because of a 100-fold increase in the price of natural gas (which they agreed to pay but the supply was cut anyway).

And I’ve heard that the natural gas suppliers are obligated to supply individual residential customers who are heating with natural gas as well. Which has left the power plants lower in the food chain.

 

[IFRs]

... from a market participant in ERCOT: As of ~10 AM Eastern time, the system has ~30 GW of capacity offline, ~26 GW of thermal -- mostly natural gas which cant get fuel deliveries which are being priorities for heating loads -- and ~4 GW of wind due to icing.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Right enough you have mostly pwr not agp like us Brits.

You Chuck boric acid in to control things and open the turbines up.

I think most in the UK are now limited to 80% now to extend life.

 

[FacEngrPE]

Part of the logic of putting residential natural gas high than power plants is that power plants that fire natural gas used to often have dual fuel - Coal or No 6 oil, and switching fuels was rather simple.

Now days switching involves environmental air emissions rule compliance, and frequently the targets can not be met with coal or No 6 fuel. Low Sulfur No 2 fuel or propane usually is not as big an emissions problem, but the switching fuel needs to be on hand in useful quantities.

For it to be practical for the alternate fuel to be stored on site, it seems that the reliability factor needs to have consideration for fuel on site. In the "old" days the economics was mostly related to the cost of fuel.

 

[CWB1]

When I lived in Texas similar weather happened every few years, I dont recall it ever being a big deal beyond the locals not knowing how to drive in it. Personally I dont see how this is even remotely a disaster, a few million people without power at 5-15F here in Detroit is called a 40 mph winter breeze, an inconvenience that happens most every winter, and warmer versions happen spring, summer, and fall.

 

[Spartan5]

Thank you for that info, IFRs. It looks like the wind farms are a relatively small part of the problem.

 

[racookpe1978]

Plants near the coast (TX through LA, MS, AL, GA, FL, SC, NC) are often "open air" because of the wind loads of a hurricane coming from unpredictable angles and in unpredictable guts. You'd need to design the steel frame building against 150+ mph winds from all quadrants, or the blown-down metal walls will destroy power plant electrical and control lines - or the turbines and pipes and valves controllers thems3lves.
And open-air plant is low down to the ground, open above AND below the thick turbine deck. The turbine casing and generator casings are low-level rounded top "smooth" surfaces with little wind loads. Hurricane wind and their blown rain go through the complex splitting above and below the deck, and causing little damage. Never no damage, but what is damaged can be recovered much more quickly than a slab-sided metal building that is collapsed.

 

[EdStainless]

Back in the day coal plants had required fuel storage requirements.
As more NatGas plants were built most were able to shirk the burden (responsability) of fuel availability.
The factory that worked at in WI had a 4 day supply of propane to back up our NatGas.
It becomes an issue with risk analysis.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[SnTMan]

But, but, but we're maximizing shareholder value...

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[dik]

thanks IRS...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[1503-44]

CWB1 That was back when there were more oil & coal fired power generators.

It used to snow in Houston every 5yrs, but that was a long, long time ago. Only one time I remember in Laredo. One complete week of below freezing in Houston. Below 32F even in the afternoons. 1983

 

[bones206]

Some info on the STP trip: Link

On Monday, Feb. 15, 2021, at 0537, an automatic reactor trip occurred at South Texas Project in Unit 1. The trip resulted from a loss of feedwater attributed to a cold weather-related failure of a pressure sensing lines to the feedwater pumps, causing a false signal, which in turn, caused the feedwater pump to trip. This event occurred in the secondary side of the plant (non-nuclear part of the unit). The reactor trip was a result of the feedwater pump trips. The primary side of the plant (nuclear side) is safe and secured.

 

[1503-44]

I did some pipe stress and whip restraint design there.

 

[Comcokid]

There's an old saying: "What Goes Around Comes Around".
It's been a long time since the energy crisis under the Carter administration. A Texas song from back then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bADTlEo0Y30

 

[racookpe1978]

Well, my days as a Reactor Watch Officer were long past, but we'd be able to get the little bitty S6G submarine reactors back on line a bit quicker than 24 hours ...
If the cause is known, fix it.
Check for similar problems, fix them.
Start up.

Don't talk about it, start up.